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Old 08-16-2010, 04:22 PM
 
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Annoyed. Pulled jury duty this week. Voir dire swearing included the phrase "...so help me god." Good grief, I didn't think any state was still backward enough to do that?!

I put down my hand and didn't swear to it. Then we had a short break. In the break, I went to the court clerk, let her know I was an atheist, and politely asked for an alternate swearing that didn't include any mention of god, if I happened to be chosen for actual jury duty. She took my name and juror number, and said she would let the judge know. I saw her go in and talk to him.

It was my fate to make it through the voir dire process, and be selected to sit on the jury. We stood to be sworn in, and I put up my hand, expecting to hear an alternate swearing that didn't include mention of god. No such luck. When I heard that "...so help me god", I put my hand down and said "No". Of course all heads swung in my direction...

Then I immediately said "Excuse me, your Honor, but I'm an atheist and I requested an alternate swearing that didn't include mention of any gods. It's against my personal code of ethics to swear by something I don't think is real." He looked at me in annoyance, and said "Well I wasn't informed that you wanted an alternate swearing. Can you do your job as an impartial juror or not?"

Of course, I said yes, but I'm a bit annoyed. I'm really tired of atheists being treated like redheaded stepchildren here in America, to be brushed aside as if we don't count. If people were being asked to raise their hand and swear to Satan or Allah in a courtroom in the USA, you damned well bet there would be fast changes happening. What bugs me is I don't know if it was the court clerk who made the end run around me, or if the judge himself decided to shun me.

And believers wonder why we seem annoyed at the system.
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Old 08-16-2010, 04:35 PM
 
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I wonder if the judge would have objected if you had only said "...so help me." At that point, if they'd made a stink about it, I'd've made one of my own.

Can't tell you how much that ticks me off what they did.

Btw, glad to see you again...you were sorely missed.
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Old 08-16-2010, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
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It sounds like the judge was just a bit annoyed by what he perceived as a minor technicality. But as you know, when you're the one who's belief system is casually being brushed aside in favor of others, it's a bit more than an annoying technicality. When I was an average white, conservative Christian living in the South, I drastically underestimated what it must be like to be a minority of any kind, because...well...I'd never been a minority back then. But since I've made an about face, I finally understand why people might be offended by things that the majority deems minor. I just hope that if I had jury duty, I'd have to courage to react the way you did. Heck, here that might get me out of jury duty!

Edit: Alternatively, when the phrase "so help me god" was repeated, you could have yelled, "WHICH ONE?!" That would have been rather interesting.
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Old 08-16-2010, 04:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplight View Post
It sounds like the judge was just a bit annoyed by what he perceived as a minor technicality. But as you know, when you're the one who's belief system is casually being brushed aside in favor of others, it's a bit more than an annoying technicality. When I was an average white, conservative Christian living in the South, I drastically underestimated what it must be like to be a minority of any kind, because...well...I'd never been a minority back then. But since I've made an about face, I finally understand why people might be offended by things that the majority deems minor. I just hope that if I had jury duty, I'd have to courage to react the way you did. Heck, here that might get me out of jury duty!

Edit: Alternatively, when the phrase "so help me god" was repeated, you could have yelled, "WHICH ONE?!" That would have been rather interesting.
I used to sit back and just take it. I don't anymore. If I don't stand up for myself and those like me, who will?

I actually went out of my way to not make a scene by going privately to the court clerk first. If they had respected my wishes and offered the alternate swearing, then I wouldn't have been forced to speak out in open court. I was polite but firm, and still was treated like I didn't matter.

Little do they realize, as an atheist I'm betting I'll be more impartial than the woman who sits next to me who was trying to proselytize to me during breaks.
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Old 08-16-2010, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
I used to sit back and just take it. I don't anymore. If I don't stand up for myself and those like me, who will?

I actually went out of my way to not make a scene by going privately to the court clerk first. If they had respected my wishes and offered the alternate swearing, then I wouldn't have been forced to speak out in open court. I was polite but firm, and still was treated like I didn't matter.

Little do they realize, as an atheist I'm betting I'll be more impartial than the woman who sits next to me who was trying to proselytize to me during breaks.
Kudos to you!
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Old 08-16-2010, 06:34 PM
 
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Good for you, Mercury!

If I'm ever in that situation, I'll just say, "I do so affirm." If they don't like it, they should pay attention to requests.

However, if I wanted to get out of jury duty, I'd say, "so help me Chihuahua."
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Old 08-16-2010, 06:41 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Merc is back?!? Yippee!
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Old 08-16-2010, 06:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Avienne View Post
Good for you, Mercury!

If I'm ever in that situation, I'll just say, "I do so affirm." If they don't like it, they should pay attention to requests.

However, if I wanted to get out of jury duty, I'd say, "so help me Chihuahua."
LMAO!

What about:

"...by Grabthar's Hammer, I do so affirm." <--while thumping fist to chest, of course.

Stupid question: do most (any?) courtrooms still make you place your hand on the bible during the swearing-in?
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Old 08-16-2010, 06:58 PM
 
6,034 posts, read 10,678,458 times
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Originally Posted by Avienne View Post
However, if I wanted to get out of jury duty, I'd say, "so help me Chihuahua."
Problem is, I don't really feel like a criminal trial is a laughing matter.

Even if I want to get out of jury duty (and I really would rather NOT have served) I can't do something like that just to cause them to excuse me. I don't want to serve, but I just can't lie or deliberately do something I know they'll kick me for. I just don't have it in me to avoid what I see as my job as a citizen. I'm too honest for that.
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Old 08-16-2010, 07:01 PM
 
2,319 posts, read 4,800,934 times
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I love that you have integrity and live it.
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