U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: How plausible is this theory (explain)?
You've convinced me, where do I join your cult? 0 0%
Nope, totally don't buy it. 10 83.33%
Sorta of, but I believe X instead... 2 16.67%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-22-2014, 03:05 PM
 
354 posts, read 245,906 times
Reputation: 105

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback
Although I find the "deposit" of religious writings over the millennia to be fascinating, I acknowledge their limitations.
They are indeed fascinating. They're humanities early attempts to explain reality and were certainly limited by and clearly show our early ignorance. For that matter, we're still quite ignorant of reality even with our fancy science tool.

Quote:
I don't worship theistic manuscripts. I don't worship any religious institution, or any human being.
But I'd assume you worship some type of a god figure, correct? That's a question I never got around to asking Mystic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-22-2014, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 6,082,049 times
Reputation: 981
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTaTHEIST View Post
Welcome to the Dark-side

Seriously though, I post on forums like this in an attempt to understand why people are god believers. It's actually a bit of a mystery from my perspective. It's always good to have seemingly nice and respectable people like yourself, Oakback, to learn from.

I'd really love to be able to explain the "mystery" of faith. (that's really what it is to me).

But you folks set a high standard. Believe me when I say, you all are truly a.....may I say blessing.

Afterall, it's very easy to try and articulate a viewpoint with those that share it.

It's much more of a challenge, and good exercise, to try with all of you.

I've heard recently that cerebral gymnastics help to delay dementia. And you guys just may help keep this aging mind in shape.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2014, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,010 posts, read 18,578,670 times
Reputation: 18680
I think what the Oakback/ AREQUIPA exchange shows is that while you cannot really reconcile atheism and theism, there can be reconciliation between atheists and theists, or at least between some atheists and theists.

If all theists were like Oakback, why, we would call off our annual War on Christmas.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2014, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,862 posts, read 3,788,814 times
Reputation: 4594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
I'd really love to be able to explain the "mystery" of faith. (that's really what it is to me).

But you folks set a high standard. Believe me when I say, you all are truly a.....may I say blessing.

Afterall, it's very easy to try and articulate a viewpoint with those that share it.

It's much more of a challenge, and good exercise, to try with all of you.

I've heard recently that cerebral gymnastics help to delay dementia. And you guys just may help keep this aging mind in shape.

The irony is that, at least from my perspective, atheism requires no cerebral gymnastics. It's a very clear-cut and straightforward way to think. It frees up the mind to wrestle with other concepts instead!
But do we like a mental challenge Oakback so you are most welcome to hang around and challenge us!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2014, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 6,082,049 times
Reputation: 981
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTaTHEIST View Post
They are indeed fascinating. They're humanities early attempts to explain reality and were certainly limited by and clearly show our early ignorance. For that matter, we're still quite ignorant of reality even with our fancy science tool.


But I'd assume you worship some type of a god figure, correct? That's a question I never got around to asking Mystic.
Correct.

Last edited by june 7th; 03-23-2014 at 06:21 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2014, 09:48 PM
 
40,086 posts, read 26,750,404 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
LOL. You forgot the exclamation points !!I understand Cruithne . . . but you DO need to acknowledge that not only do you NOT have any evidentiary basis for your preference . . . you never can have. You can not evidence anything by lack of evidence!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
But, the default when there is no evidence is NOT to believe.
But that is NOT the situation. There is plenty of evidence but "we don't know" what it is evidence of! We don't know if it is evidence of God or not. In the face of that ignorance there can BE no default.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2014, 06:21 AM
 
3,404 posts, read 2,251,388 times
Reputation: 1315
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
But that is NOT the situation. There is plenty of evidence but "we don't know" what it is evidence of! We don't know if it is evidence of God or not. In the face of that ignorance there can BE no default.
Again, I have to take issue with your logic and use of language here. Evidence is data or observation in support of ( or opposed to ) a particular hypothesis. Without some assertion that it is supporting or conflicting, it isn't evidence, it is just observation.

You can't have evidence without knowing what it is for. Free of a hypothesis, it is merely data.

We do have a lot of data, we observe all manner of things through science, through our own senses. Saying we have no evidence is not saying we have no data, but it is saying that when we try to line up our observations behind a hypothesis the result is less than compelling. You even acknowledge this by saying,"We don't know if it is evidence of God or not."

When we have a lot of data that does not line up clearly and overwhelmingly behind a hypothesis, there can be and is a default. We don't believe it, and should not believe it based on the evidence. We use this standard in the laboratory, in the court room, and in our everyday life. Why should we not apply the same standard we use for everything else to arguably the most important evaluation of evidence possible?

-NoCapo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2014, 06:56 AM
 
39,138 posts, read 10,857,554 times
Reputation: 5090
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
But that is NOT the situation. There is plenty of evidence but "we don't know" what it is evidence of! We don't know if it is evidence of God or not. In the face of that ignorance there can BE no default.
I agree. This is your blind(ed by Faith) spot. We don't need to know or ask what it is evidence of.Only that it shows no sign of being anything but unthinking, unplanned, physical procedures. That is what we call materialist naturalism and the 'God' - label is not justified and that is why the non -God view is the default.

Effectively you are saying that it could equally have a 'God' behind it or in your theory, that the physical procedures and operations of matter which give rise (through evolution) to consciousness are all part of a pre-existing cosmic consciousness Aka 'God'.

But, as we have said before, many times, there is no real reason to postulate this other than on Faith. You know this well enough which is why you try to discredit the principle of parsimony by sneering at 'The Friar's dictum'. (1) Because Occam's razor is the principle that hands the default to materialism.

We can see where your reasoning is wrong and why- because it is based on Godfaith and you are trying every trick in the book to make it look plausible. We have seen them all before and they do not work and the only one who cannot see this is the God-believer.

(1) and you may save yourself the trouble of arguing that this is a mere human invention, convenience or construct. It is- like mathematics or the calendar, but it is, like mathematics and the calendar, a logical response to real factual events. You may recall the example of the bush vanishing behind a rock.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2014, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,114,951 times
Reputation: 1399
Oakback, I have some questions for you, so I will start a new thread in the R&S forum.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2014, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 6,082,049 times
Reputation: 981
Imagine two innocent children staring into the night sky, both asking the same question.
"Where do we come from?"
It's seems to be an obvious question.

Over the millennia each kid take a different path to answer the question.
One takes a path of science. Astronomy, geology, biology etc.. are all developed in an effort to answer the question.
Another takes a path that relies upon myth, legend, and individual experiences.


Notwithstanding what appears to refute creationists theory, thousands of years later, neither has the answer.
So they now debate who has the most Succinct data.
Who's data is better.
Who has the strongest theory.

They now stand facing each other with fists clinched.
No longer gazing into the sky.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top