U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-03-2014, 04:59 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,097,133 times
Reputation: 6081

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
No, I'm hedging my bets that if it makes no difference to me (and it doesn't) to believe that a God exists, then it's better to believe that a God exists. Denying that a God exists is a sure screw-up if it's incorrect. Why choose to be incorrect when it makes no difference?
No it is NOT a sure screw-up. You are assuming not just that god exists, but that he's the petty, vindictive, judgmental, tormenting variety of god -- and that he's petty, vindictive, judging and tormenting about this particular issue. For all you know, god is completely unconcerned with whether you believe in him or not; or, he will send you to eternal torment if you DO believe in him. Or maybe just if you run stop signs or like Justin Bieber.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-03-2014, 05:08 AM
 
39,211 posts, read 10,895,806 times
Reputation: 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
No, I'm hedging my bets that if it makes no difference to me (and it doesn't) to believe that a God exists, then it's better to believe that a God exists. Denying that a God exists is a sure screw-up if it's incorrect. Why choose to be incorrect when it makes no difference?
But which god? If you bet on the wrong one, you are in more trouble than the unbeliever.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2014, 05:49 AM
 
5,462 posts, read 5,942,522 times
Reputation: 1804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
No, I'm hedging my bets that if it makes no difference to me (and it doesn't) to believe that a God exists, then it's better to believe that a God exists. Denying that a God exists is a sure screw-up if it's incorrect.
Worshiping the wrong god is also going to be a bad choice, what with all the smiting and whatnot. Damned if you do...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2014, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,867 posts, read 3,794,760 times
Reputation: 4609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieneke View Post
No, I'm hedging my bets that if it makes no difference to me (and it doesn't) to believe that a God exists, then it's better to believe that a God exists. Denying that a God exists is a sure screw-up if it's incorrect. Why choose to be incorrect when it makes no difference?
Why?
Why do you assume its a screw-up if its incorrect? How do you know what's incorrect?
How do you know what god thinks or wants?

Lets assume for a minute there is a god.
What if what he wants is for you not to believe, because with non-belief comes a curiosity to find another answer? Maybe you are meant to look for answers.

What if god respects all the atheists for having their own minds and thinks all the theists are a bit dumb? Maybe the atheists will all be given a big pat on the back for thinking rationally.

As someone else said earlier in the thread there are a myriad possibilities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2014, 04:05 PM
 
25,740 posts, read 25,408,469 times
Reputation: 24351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
Why?
Why do you assume its a screw-up if its incorrect? How do you know what's incorrect?
How do you know what god thinks or wants?

Lets assume for a minute there is a god.
What if what he wants is for you not to believe, because with non-belief comes a curiosity to find another answer? Maybe you are meant to look for answers.


What if god respects all the atheists for having their own minds and thinks all the theists are a bit dumb? Maybe the atheists will all be given a big pat on the back for thinking rationally.

As someone else said earlier in the thread there are a myriad possibilities.
I...I...I think I love you. Will you marry me? My husband won't mind - one more income for the family and all that.

I have had this EXACT thought, many, many times. (The bolded.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2014, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,867 posts, read 3,794,760 times
Reputation: 4609
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
I...I...I think I love you. Will you marry me? My husband won't mind - one more income for the family and all that.

I have had this EXACT thought, many, many times. (The bolded.)
Hahaha.
Well you know I absolutely would except my husband might object ( I'm a girlie).



But great minds think alike though right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2014, 04:51 PM
 
25,740 posts, read 25,408,469 times
Reputation: 24351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruithne View Post
Hahaha.
Well you know I absolutely would except my husband might object ( I'm a girlie).



But great minds think alike though right?
Oops!

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

You have nothing to fear, my husband is always exhausted from commuting. I still say, join on in! How good a cook are you?

And on a more OT note, thanks for hitting the nail on the head with that one possibility. I couldn't believe it when I read that, I wouldn't have believed anybody else would have thought of it. Great minds indeed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2014, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
6,867 posts, read 3,794,760 times
Reputation: 4609
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Oops!

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

You have nothing to fear, my husband is always exhausted from commuting. I still say, join on in! How good a cook are you?

And on a more OT note, thanks for hitting the nail on the head with that one possibility. I couldn't believe it when I read that, I wouldn't have believed anybody else would have thought of it. Great minds indeed.
Haha. My husband is exhausted from commuting all the time too. I'm an excellent cook!

How far is San Gabriel from Oakland?
Wait I'll just get my coat.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-03-2014, 07:11 PM
 
Location: USA
3,439 posts, read 1,262,145 times
Reputation: 1017
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhans123 View Post
This is a follow-up post to a thread I started in this forum roughly four months ago. In my thread I basically covered how I, being a freshman in college, was beginning to analyze religion (specifically Christianity) and trying to remove as much personal bias as possible during my analysis.

Where I find myself four months later is in a position where I feel rationally that the concept of the Christian God is one superficial in concrete evidence and not all too different than many gods throughout the course of history. I have many reasons for this: Christians cherry-picking from the Bible, ineffectiveness of prayer, many religions with different views, scientific knowledge with credible evidence disputing the Bible's recollection of many historical events like creation. Also, I have witnessed in my short lifetime how morals change over time and the Bible is simply a tool used by many Americans to justify or condemn changing morals depending on whether it fits their agenda.

Logical reasoning aside, it is important to address my emotions with regards to the Christian faith. I have, for as long as I can remember have always had a very strong and active conscientious voice. I can recall situations in my early childhood where I would think or do something morally wrong, even if it be a minuscule deed that affected nor concerned anyone other than myself. In other words, I tend to feel guilty a lot. At timesI feel in my heart that God is still there, even while it makes no sense in my mind.

About three years ago I heard a voice in my head (not audibly) which I presumed to be God tell me to open my Bible to a certain book and chapter, where said book and chapter was located, and a synopsis of the content I would find in this portion of the Bible. What I found on that page was exactly what I'd heard in my mind. Since then I have had that same voice in my head tell me to read certain passages but they either do not make any sense as a single passage, or sometimes do not exist. I realize many of you will raise an eyebrow in skepticism, as I still do myself frankly; likewise, I find myself in a difficult position these days hoping to eventually make sense of things. What I do find is that in my more religious periods I am accompanied with a recurring thought process of wondering if what I'm doing is right or wrong, am I going to hell or am I not, and things of that nature.

I would appreciate and welcome any thoughts or general feedback you all have to offer. Thanks if you took the time to read all of this!
It's hard to overcome a lifetime of programming, isn't it? Imagine how unthinkable it would be for a devout Muslim or Hindu to accept the idea that their lifetime of programming could actually be in reality nothing but ancient superstition and make believe. It really all comes down to whether or not one wants to spend their life in pursuit of the truth, or whether or not they would prefer the comforting cocoon of a make believe reality. The problem with religion is, like believing in Santa Claus, once you fully understand and accept that such a thing never was true to begin with, there is really no going back. You are standing at that cross roads now. And something will be lost if you choose to pursuit the truth. And that is a comforting illusion. And what will be gained is a clear eyed view of the universe as it really is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-21-2014, 09:00 PM
 
45 posts, read 34,758 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Thanks for bringing that up. It's what I was going to mention once we could look at this 'God told me to look it up' claim.

Christians cannot be sure just what being a 'good Christian' is. Or even whether it is the right religion. Given that many have doubts about Hell-threat and either try to minimise it to a 'separation' or some kind of purgatorial process, never mind just rejecting the idea of hell altogether, it seems pretty likely that the carrot is doubtful and how to get it equally doubtful.

Atheists therefore have nothing to gain and everything that we know we have to lose-or waste - if we sideline it in favour of relying on faith.

My line on this -and it is relevant to the OP's question - is that no god that is credible as a just an merciful god is going to inflict hell on people because they couldn't believe an unbelievable claim. I don't think an afterlife likely, but if there is, it is something we all get as naturally as we all get birth or death.

At any rate, there is no one god handing out entry tickets. Therefore fear of retribution for not believing something or other - what a silly qualification for getting an afterlife! can be set aside as nonsense and the weight of fear of upsetting God by asking too many questions can be shrugged off. It is just a method of frightening people into church.

The atheist afterlife is a more pleasant prospect. If there is one, you can take it as guaranteed so really there is no deed to worry about it or be frightened to doubt or question,which is what hellthreat is there to do.

It is Pascal's wager in reverse: you have nothing you can count on gaining if you are a Christian - or any other religion - or losing if you are not; so it is better to live this life as though it is the only one you got, because that may very likely be the case.

I am a doubting christian. I have been doing a lot of reading, research and study trying to find some sort of tangable proof of whatever the truth is. This post has made more sense to me than most of what I have read lately.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top