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Except if the Christians are right... You will be right next to me in hell for rejecting the sacrifice of Christ.
hahaha, That's make it interesting, isn't it.
So we are now talking that IF there is a God that exists, and that's an IF, then which religion to follow?
And to answer this, you will need to judge a religion of thoroughly reading and understanding it's book.
If I find that Jesus was the savior, then I would at least be able to tell God that I AT LEAST tried to find you, may be my path was wrong but I did not reject your existence so I request for mercy. I think I will stand a better chance to have mercy bestowed upon me
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo
All I am doing is taking your logic one step further. Regardless of a God's existence, I am doing my best to live a very happy and good life by taking care of myself, my family, my neighbor, my community, and my country. I don't need a religion to explain to me how to do this, nor do I need the threat of hell or even simply god's displeasure to motivate me to do it. If there is a god who would choose to consign me to eternal torment for that, then I wouldn't be able to worship it with a clear conscience anyway...
-NoCapo
God also promises a lot of good things happen to you if you submit to his will to do the good, and God also tells you that he will forgive you if you make mistakes, but quite conveniently you ignore it all to make your point. Judging God by double standards?
Belief for you might be a choice. It is not for me. I can only believe things if given sound arguments, evidence, data or reasoning upon which to do so.
Given you have not just provided very little.... but absolutely NO.... arguments, evidence, data or reasoning to suggest there is a god.... I can not simply "choose" to believe there is one.
One wonders how far the lability of your credulity stretches however. Are you capable of, for example, holding an entirely empty box and simply "choose" to believe it is full of cash?
And you absolutely have NO EVIDENCE, DATA, REASONING to proof that God does not exist, do you?
This thread has got me wondering: why do religious people care so much that Atheists don't believe? What it is that generates the outrage? .
Absolutely incorrect.
There is no outrage in my faith against the Atheists. All my faith tells me is to politely convey the message to non-believers to ponder upon the purpose of their lives and submit to the will of God. AND THAT'S IT!
I don't have to worry about whether the non-believer accepts God in his life or not. It's not my job, and I don't have to worry about it, hence, there is no outrage.
Yes, the non-believer himself may initiate to ask questions and find out more about faith IF he feels that he needs God in his life. In that case, I am obligated to answer him to the best of my knowledge. But there is no concept of going into outrage if the non-believer does not become a believer. Everyone is free to make their choice
So we are now talking that IF there is a God that exists, and that's an IF, then which religion to follow?
And to answer this, you will need to judge a religion of thoroughly reading and understanding it's book.
If I find that Jesus was the savior, then I would at least be able to tell God that I AT LEAST tried to find you, may be my path was wrong but I did not reject your existence so I request for mercy. I think I will stand a better chance to have mercy bestowed upon me
But that won't help you, according to much of Christian doctrine. For much of Protestant Christianity, they don't believe God grades on a scale. It is a binary choice, in or out. You are out. I am out. Unless you wish to renounce your faith, you will always be out, with no hope. The fact is that the choice not between god and no god, but between one of thousands of gods and no god. And the best answer I can give is that I have found the idea of a god wanting in evidence, therefore I cannot believe, just that simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ll0OoO0ll
God also promises a lot of good things happen to you if you submit to his will to do the good, and God also tells you that he will forgive you if you make mistakes, but quite conveniently you ignore it all to make your point. Judging God by double standards?
No, I am not ignoring it at all. Some concepts of god are merciful, some don't require worship or belief at all, but the common thread is that I can find no evidence that would lead me to believe any of them exist.
For the record I was a theist for over 20 years, I did believe, I sought, studied and tested, and in the end I have come to see that it is not real. While I have not extensively studied Islam, I can safely say that many of the same objections I had to Christianity still apply. Both believe in an uncreated creator who is righteous and judge mankind, for which there is no evidence. When I left Christianity, I tried to find some other religion that might suit, but in the end too many of the boiled down to a guy and a book that cannot be questioned. I've done that already, and am not interested.
And you absolutely have NO EVIDENCE, DATA, REASONING to proof that God does not exist, do you?
You need a course in philosophy 101. There is no onus on me to prove the negative of an unfalsifiable assertion. You can either support the contention there is a god, or you can not. Simples.
And you absolutely have NO EVIDENCE, DATA, REASONING to proof that God does not exist, do you?
We do not assert either that god is proven, nor unproven. We do assert that god is unprovable (and therefore implicitly undisprovable). Belief is withheld from things that are unsubstantiated -- much less from things that are unsubstantiatable.
And you absolutely have NO EVIDENCE, DATA, REASONING to proof that God does not exist, do you?
Do you believe in everything that has not been proven definitively not to exist? Do you believe in everything that has no evidence, data, and reasoning to prove that it does not exist?
But that won't help you, according to much of Christian doctrine. For much of Protestant Christianity, they don't believe God grades on a scale. It is a binary choice, in or out. You are out. I am out. Unless you wish to renounce your faith, you will always be out, with no hope. The fact is that the choice not between god and no god, but between one of thousands of gods and no god. And the best answer I can give is that I have found the idea of a god wanting in evidence, therefore I cannot believe, just that simple.
We have a difference of opinion here and I think you are now changing your stance.
The original argument was weather God exists or not. Then we said, if God exists then which religion to follow?
And the notion of my reply was simple, you use your logic, knowledge, common sense to judge each religion BY IT'S BOOK to make the best possible decision which YOU think makes the most sense to you. If Christians believe "you are in or you are out", then you read their book, if Muslims claim ABCD, then you judge their religion by THEIR BOOK, and so do you do with Judaism and Hinduism and other isms out there. It's not fair to judge the religion without studying it's scriptures and see how fair is the call?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo
No, I am not ignoring it at all. Some concepts of god are merciful, some don't require worship or belief at all, but the common thread is that I can find no evidence that would lead me to believe any of them exist.
The definition of evidence differs from person to person. What could be evidence for you, may not be a joke for others; however, if you think an evidence will be some experiment in a lab or along the lines of "Seeing is believing" then it's not gonna happen in this life. You are invited to ponder upon the signs of God, and you can you use logic and your common sense to believe that there is somebody out there who has created it all. And this is EXACTLY what's called "Faith". You don't see it with your eyes but from the signs you believe in something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo
For the record I was a theist for over 20 years, I did believe, I sought, studied and tested, and in the end I have come to see that it is not real. While I have not extensively studied Islam, I can safely say that many of the same objections I had to Christianity still apply. Both believe in an uncreated creator who is righteous and judge mankind, for which there is no evidence. When I left Christianity, I tried to find some other religion that might suit, but in the end too many of the boiled down to a guy and a book that cannot be questioned. I've done that already, and am not interested.
-NoCapo
20 years is nothing. you still have time. I invite you to study Quran, read an authentic Quranic translation and see if talks to you, see if it answers your questions, see if it makes sense to you. There is nothing to lose.
Do you believe in everything that has not been proven definitively not to exist? Do you believe in everything that has no evidence, data, and reasoning to prove that it does not exist?
If you are out there to judge and prove the existence of God based on scientific knowledge then science will go along with you to a certain point and give you signs that YES, there is something out there. This will give you the confidence to take the final leap in the faith which is blind.
The way it works is, you believe in God but you will see him only after you die.
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