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Old 06-11-2014, 05:20 AM
 
446 posts, read 399,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
For substantiating unfalsifiable claims. As I said, it is philosophy 101. Take a course in it. It is time you will not lament the loss of.
And what are those claims, for example ?
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:48 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,190 posts, read 9,075,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ll0OoO0ll View Post
And what are those claims, for example ?
The largest and most fundamental unfalsifiable claim is the existence of god. As Nozz, says, Philosophy 101.
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Old 06-11-2014, 09:23 PM
 
446 posts, read 399,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
The largest and most fundamental unfalsifiable claim is the existence of god. As Nozz, says, Philosophy 101.
So it's a philosophy, and not a scientific fact?
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Rivendell
1,387 posts, read 2,165,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ll0OoO0ll View Post
So it's a philosophy, and not a scientific fact?
Sure. Anyone, including you is welcome to give scientific evidence of god. There are several threads addressing that very topic. I would be very interested in your evidence.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ll0OoO0ll View Post
And what are those claims, for example ?
The claim there is a god for example. That is an unfalsifiable claim and as such the philosophy 101 course will tell you the onus of proof lies with you, not with the person who fails to be convinced by the assertion.

Hence every time you trot out the canard mantra of "You can not prove there is no god" you are doing nothing at all except one thing: Showing the world you do not understand basic philosophy 101.
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Old 06-12-2014, 04:47 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ll0OoO0ll View Post
So it's a philosophy, and not a scientific fact?
No it's not a philosophy. It's a philosophical, rather than a scientific point. It's interesting that you seem now to be resorting to science when it suits you, by implying that a point is more valid if it's a statement of proven scientific fact rather than a philosophically valid point. Further demonstrating your ignorance of the basic principles of both philosophy and science.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:02 PM
 
40,035 posts, read 26,715,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I think that religion is obviously oriented to power and control over people. It is hard to deny. Belief in God iiiis more difficult to assess . . . and most of your posts have been about that it seems. It is typical of atheists to equate religion with belief in God as if they were inseparable . . . but they are not. Social reasons probably dominate the roles religion plays in the lives of believers in God. But belief in God does not necessarily fill a need for an invisible friend. I can testify that it actually involves an experience of reality that is undeniable to those who have it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
The tired old "it's relationship, not religion" false dichotomy is something I no longer buy into. Religion, they say, is man reaching up to god, but True Christianity (tm) is god reaching down to man. It doesn't matter for purposes of this discussion; either one is a man made belief about god -- his existence and how we relate to him or he to us. Religion is merely the systematization and codification of those beliefs.
That is not really what I was referring to . . . but I can see how you could take it that way. Religion is entirely about power and control assigned to a set of tenets invested in an institution purported to represent and promote what God wants from us. Belief in God is entirely cognitive and involves a state of mind that resonates with and promotes what God wants from us independent of any "precepts and doctrines of men" in religions. It is not an intellectual process. It is visceral.
Quote:
I know that you make the distinction between god and our beliefs ABOUT him but to me that is also a pointless distinction. We cannot relate to god or take any action in response to god without believing or knowing something about him. Since no one has even gotten to first base by demonstrating his existence there is nothing we know about him, so it's all belief, all the time.
I understand completely. My state of mind prior to my epiphany was exactly the same for exactly the same reasons. Afterwards . . . I erased any and all intellectual beliefs ABOUT God and proceeded on the visceral information alone. My odyssey provided the intellectual rationale and scientific hypotheses to support my experiences. I ultimately chose the Christ legend based entirely on the characteristics of Christ as described. They match my visceral experiences exactly . . . so I choose to believe them (and find validation for them) on faith. Agape love is powerful and renders all the pomposity and human vanity and hubris in the "precepts and doctrines of men" vacuous.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:52 AM
 
3,637 posts, read 2,695,086 times
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So you "chose" to believe there is a god and that Jesus was some aspect of this god.

That would very clearly explain why you can not in any way show there is a god or present a single argument for there being one. Because you do not have any. The idea there is a god is simply one you "chose".

Perhaps that is another one of the "goals" of religion therefore - to allow people who arbitrarily choose belief without evidence to validate each others choice as a community.
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Old 06-13-2014, 02:54 AM
 
Location: in here, out there
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The main goal of religion is to organize society and keep 'us' from being killed by 'them'.
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Old 06-13-2014, 05:03 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,190 posts, read 9,075,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles22 View Post
The main goal of religion is to organize society and keep 'us' from being killed by 'them'.
Yes, we must identify and guard against "the Other". The covert purpose of many social groups is the otherization or even outright dehumanization of people whose views you don't like.
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