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Old 05-21-2014, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,085,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Do you consider Napolean to be a good role model?
I don't, but he was right in this instance. That's exactly one of the main purposes of religion, and a Machiavellian like Napoleon ought to know.
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Old 05-22-2014, 12:50 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,281,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Do you consider Napolean to be a good role model?
I do not think ANYONE is a good role model alone. This might be an alien concept to people like Christians who basically run a character cult worshiping one single person. Rather I think the free thinking person not blinkered by such personality cults can evaluate EVERYONE equally through a role model filter and evaluate who did what, and pick and choose what aspects of any person to emulate. Or not.
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Old 05-22-2014, 01:25 AM
 
2,826 posts, read 1,866,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ll0OoO0ll View Post
lol @ those who call it "control".
God does not put a gun to your head or throws you in jail if you decide not to follow.

The real control is our man made laws. Try not to pay income taxes and penalty will be immediately served by your fellow human beings. That sounds like more of a "control".
That's the point of religion. I don't need to fear X person. So he's gonna threaten to kill me if I don't obey. So what? I believe death is not the end of things, and if you kill me I'll just reincarnate/afterlife/whatever. Unfortunately, these same forces have taken over religion.
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Old 05-22-2014, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,085,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ll0OoO0ll View Post
lol @ those who call it "control".
God does not put a gun to your head or throws you in jail if you decide not to follow.
No, he just threatens to toss you into hell and throw away the key (at least, as most Christians would have it).

Amusingly, some Christians also say you have to ASK Jesus into your heart because "god is a gentleman" and won't come in uninvited. BUT you need to ask him so you don't go to hell.

So LOL @ THAT.
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Old 05-22-2014, 09:42 AM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,631,972 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
I do not think ANYONE is a good role model alone. This might be an alien concept to people like Christians who basically run a character cult worshiping one single person.
Actually...it's 3 persons...1 God. But I don't expect you to get that right.
Quote:
Rather I think the free thinking person not blinkered by such personality cults can evaluate EVERYONE equally through a role model filter and evaluate who did what, and pick and choose what aspects of any person to emulate. Or not.
You throw that phrase "free-thinker" around as if only atheists are able to think freely. Truth be told, some of the most closed-minded people I've spoken to have claimed atheism.
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Old 05-22-2014, 02:18 PM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
11,186 posts, read 11,001,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Actually...it's 3 persons...1 God. But I don't expect you to get that right.


You throw that phrase "free-thinker" around as if only atheists are able to think freely. Truth be told, some of the most closed-minded people I've spoken to have claimed atheism.
Actually, the Internet domain name freethinkers.org is registered to Internet Infidels, Inc. They are a non-profit organization promoting a naturalistic worldview. That kinda gives a little credence to the use of the terms freethinker and atheist together.
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Old 05-22-2014, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,085,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Actually, the Internet domain name freethinkers.org is registered to Internet Infidels, Inc. They are a non-profit organization promoting a naturalistic worldview. That kinda gives a little credence to the use of the terms freethinker and atheist together.
I don't think Viz is arguing that point, he's taking umbrage to the implication that "freethinker" can't be applied to theists. What he perhaps doesn't understand is how the word "free" is used in the context of "freethinker".

To be truly free in one's thoughts, one must adjust those thoughts to conform to reality. Religion starts with the opposite premise -- an externally given, immutable set of truths which are incontrovertible. It then must bend all evidence, all thoughts, all ideas, to be in conformity with those asserted truths -- even when the asserted truths can be demonstrated to be contrary to facts on the ground. "Let god be true, and every man a liar".

Religion should have nothing to fear from free inquiry if, as it claims, it conforms to capital-T Truth, aka "reality". However in practice it fears free inquiry.
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Old 05-23-2014, 12:41 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,281,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Actually...it's 3 persons...1 God. But I don't expect you to get that right.
You have failed utterly to even show one god exists. Now you want three. Good for LOLz arent you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
You throw that phrase "free-thinker" around as if only atheists are able to think freely. Truth be told, some of the most closed-minded people I've spoken to have claimed atheism.
Way to ignore the point of my actual post and get a snide dig in at atheists.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Texas
35,269 posts, read 19,297,794 times
Reputation: 20898
Default What is the main goal of religion?

Control/conformance
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:36 AM
 
19,950 posts, read 13,631,972 times
Reputation: 1973
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I don't think Viz is arguing that point, he's taking umbrage to the implication that "freethinker" can't be applied to theists. What he perhaps doesn't understand is how the word "free" is used in the context of "freethinker".
Thank you. I appreciate your clarification of that.
Quote:
To be truly free in one's thoughts, one must adjust those thoughts to conform to reality. Religion starts with the opposite premise -- an externally given, immutable set of truths which are incontrovertible. It then must bend all evidence, all thoughts, all ideas, to be in conformity with those asserted truths -- even when the asserted truths can be demonstrated to be contrary to facts on the ground. "Let god be true, and every man a liar".
I've met many atheists that consider themselves to be "free thinkers" that would never DREAM of looking at the evidence for God. If one is ruling out options from the beginning and refusing to look at the evidence, that is no better than the religious person refusing to question religion.
Quote:
Religion should have nothing to fear from free inquiry if, as it claims, it conforms to capital-T Truth, aka "reality". However in practice it fears free inquiry.
I agree. It should have nothing to fear. Neither should atheism, or any other worldview.
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