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Old 04-26-2014, 12:24 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .EL. View Post
Why are you here if not to think and theorize? But if you don't want to think, that's OK too.

As for the other posters, just because you cannot think of a reason does not mean there isn't one. We are not the most intelligent beings in the universe: as proven by some of these comments. I see a lot criticism with no innovative theories or ideas; innovation may be difficult if your only skill is to criticize.

Lilac110 gave the best response thus far. However, I am still waiting for better, more intelligent responses from people who can think things through without stating the obvious.

Worst comment of the day: "There is actually no such thing as "nothing"." Please do not do leave comments like that. IAI (I Assume Intelligence) maybe you should as well.
Why are they here? In general because their parents joined their gametes into a diploid starter cell. More specifically, they might be in the forum to learn/read about what people are posting in a section of their interest (which is why they aren't in the philosophy forum).

Nothing is a concept (a barely understood one at that) for which a lot of logical dissertations point to as being impossible; in other words, something must exist because complete nothingness is an illogical concept. Nothingness doesn't have anything to stop something from existing, that would be one of the paradoxes of nothingness.

Forcing an answer doesn't mean that answer would be true, such a method would only make the answer "forced" yet not necessitate it to be true.

Last edited by LuminousTruth; 04-26-2014 at 01:07 AM..
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Old 04-26-2014, 12:28 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .EL. View Post
AREQUIPA, I did not mean to confuse you; I am not using the theist definition of creation. Creation simply means - the act of producing or causing to exist; the act of creating; engendering. Please do not let your previous interaction with theists affect your opinion in this forum.
Perhaps using a better word such as "caused" rather than "created" might dispel some of the "theism influenced" responses.
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Old 04-26-2014, 12:36 AM
 
43 posts, read 39,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I have to congratulate you There are not many people on this forum who can confuse me.

While I am prepared to kick whatever argument you are making into touch, seeing the argument for atheism as evidentially and logically sound, perhaps you could explain,if there is not some kind of theism involved here, why is it a 'New message for atheists?'
Perhaps you should read the complete version (the link is on my original post).
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Old 04-26-2014, 12:46 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .EL. View Post
THE PARENT ENTITY (Summary)

Maybe there’s an explanation beyond religion and atheist theory. The problem with current beliefs is that they are not observable in nature. Life is not created by supernatural gods or inorganic objects. We need a theory that follows the laws of nature.

...

Please read the complete version CLICK HERE. IAI (I Assume Intelligence) – IAI the reader of this material. Please leave comments and questions that perpetuate knowledge and understanding.
If it helps develop the idea any better, I think that evolution and abiogenesis are observable, they just require time and money. Abiogenesis is a pretty solid idea because of (although there are no "organic elements") our ability to simulate a natural environment which can cause inorganic molecules to become organic ones. Also helpful is our ability to create "cell membranes" in a simulation of a natural process. Having observed (and created) the bases of RNA and how they self-assemble into strands and self-replicate, it isn't too hard to extrapolate that RNA and would eventually be trapped in a sort of phospholipid bilayer, and replicate and grow as it acquired the right molecules, mutating until what we see today: with DNA and Polymerase-proteins later becoming the more stable and more dominant replication system.
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Old 04-26-2014, 12:52 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,750,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .EL. View Post
Perhaps you should read the complete version (the link is on my original post).
I think NoCapo is right about his overview of it.

Sure, your are right, people are won over more when their believes and biases aren't attacked all at once, but I don't think the atheists here are willing to recede or hide their beliefs just to convert people (who bring their own flaws) into a "Homogenized" group.

Still, it's really a good point, but some people can be stubborn enough to not listen even to their own twin. So even pandering to them might only help to confirm all of their previous believes and none of your new ones.

And indeed, your idea is tantamount to Deism, and isn't going to attract any Theists nor Atheists, but only Deists. And good luck to those Deists in trying to keep their children from being seduced or convinced by neither Theism nor Atheism.

Last edited by LuminousTruth; 04-26-2014 at 01:08 AM..
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Old 04-26-2014, 01:01 AM
 
43 posts, read 39,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Perhaps using a better word such as "caused" rather than "created" might dispel some of the "theism influenced" responses.
Excellent point. I thought of this, but should I defer usage of a word because its definition has been hijacked or try to reclaim that word to make it my own? As a writer I insist on using the words that best illustrates my point. I cannot give in to the hijackers, I won’t let them win. Sometimes it is necessary to redefine the meaning and usage of these common words to our benefit. That being said, I am flexible and sometimes I make adjustments.

Thank you LuminousTruth

.EL.
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Old 04-26-2014, 03:34 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,847 posts, read 19,948,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .EL. View Post

Lilac110 gave the best response thus far. However, I am still waiting for better, more intelligent responses from people who can think things through without stating the obvious.
.
More intelligent or just more intellectual sounding?
IOW, you want to make , what for many, is a simple concept into a complicated one for what purpose?
If one believes there is no philosophical 'purpose' to human life, how better to put it than as a simple fact?
That sounds pretty intelligent to me.
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Old 04-26-2014, 05:55 AM
 
3,404 posts, read 2,254,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .EL. View Post
Excellent point. I thought of this, but should I defer usage of a word because its definition has been hijacked or try to reclaim that word to make it my own? As a writer I insist on using the words that best illustrates my point. I cannot give in to the hijackers, I won’t let them win. Sometimes it is necessary to redefine the meaning and usage of these common words to our benefit. That being said, I am flexible and sometimes I make adjustments.

.EL.
I have two points:

One, words mean something. It is really unhelpful in communication to change meanings on the fly, or conflate multiple concepts that share a word. If you want to use words in a specific context, it helps to define them for your readers. It avoids a lot of confusion.

Two, having reread your blog post, I still don't understand what you are trying to put forth. You want to posit a creator, but one that is strictly natural, because somehow being uncreated removes meaning from our lives. In this case, how do you deal with the infinite regress of creators? If you don't have a first casue, then you must either have an infinite regress or some creator arose uncreated from natural processes, i.e. abiogenesis. If abiogenesis could have occured for some creator in the chain of creation, why could it not be true of us now?

I guess I am just trying to understand how this is a viable "third way" and not simply an attempt to soft peddle either atheism or theism. Can you explain a bit more?

-NoCapo
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Old 04-26-2014, 09:32 AM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 8,266,473 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by .EL. View Post
Why are you here if not to think and theorize? But if you don't want to think, that's OK too.

As for the other posters, just because you cannot think of a reason does not mean there isn't one. We are not the most intelligent beings in the universe: as proven by some of these comments. I see a lot criticism with no innovative theories or ideas; innovation may be difficult if your only skill is to criticize.

Lilac110 gave the best response thus far. However, I am still waiting for better, more intelligent responses from people who can think things through without stating the obvious.

Worst comment of the day: "There is actually no such thing as "nothing"." Please do not do leave comments like that. IAI (I Assume Intelligence) maybe you should as well.
Funny how you wish to discuss only on terms that you state and disregard any statement that does not totally agree with yours.

You claim to IAI (your term) yet fail to see it when confronted by it.

Your opinion is not a marker of the truth except to only yourself. To the rest of us, it is nothing except something to be challenged and discarded.
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Old 04-26-2014, 09:42 AM
 
43 posts, read 39,842 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
Your idea is, quite frankly, nothing new. You essentially are trying to find an alternative to materialism, and just wind up with some sort of halfway deism, based on what appears to be a very faulty understanding of evolutionary theory.

If you want serious critique of your ideas, I would suggest two things: try to distill the essence of what you have to say into a series of smaller points, and post the entire thing in the thread. Trying to quote and really dig into a post on another part of City-Data is just a pain, and makes it not worth the effort...

-NoCapo
Some of you reference materials you have already read to find labels to fit what I have written. This tool is necessary for you to compartmentalize ideas in order to categorize what you read. To best understand my material you should read it with a clear mind, free of prejudice, bias, theories, and influence; keep an open mind to any possibility. And please do not apply these labels to me as I am none of them.

Thank you


.EL.
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