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Old 04-02-2015, 11:46 AM
 
13,493 posts, read 5,020,147 times
Reputation: 1368

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One thing I know more than you is what science says and the process it is used. Not to mention the science itself. I'll take care of the evolution part. That is not open for debate. Your strength is to convey the atheist massage. You absolutely can do that better than me. That is not open for debate either.

yes, I agree. they are us. Of course we can learn from them. That's where the disconnect was for me I think. I couldn't understand what we were doing here. uniformatiatianism doesn't solve the emotional connections all the time. be it abuse from religion, or the insanely stupid liberals, Sometimes it just is what it is. Maybe I should be in a anti-liberal forum.

yes, if we let literalist run the show we never get out of the bronze age. Infect, if everybody was a literalist I would say we would still be pre-human.

If you can show me that, you can show anybody. Thanks arg.

PS
"infect" get it ...
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Old 04-02-2015, 04:08 PM
 
40,176 posts, read 26,797,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Sorry, Arq you just proceeded to show that you do NOT understand what is and what is not an explanation. Your God-o-phobia is so strong it seems to have you willing to forgo explanations and just pretend you have them. We ask how did consciousness arise from non-conscious material? You accept as an explanation that it "emerged." This simply means you have no clue how it came to exist. But you accept that it somehow "emerged" as your acceptable "non-explanation" explanation to avoid any possibility of a God. Riiiiiight! Talk about being all washed up! You don't even have a horse to flog!
Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post
For example you speak often of a consciousness energy - and how we convert energy into consciousness energy. A pretty little hypothesis - but not grounded in anything - and all energy going into and out of the body is currently accounted for. So you are merely postulating an energy neither observed - measured - or implicated in any other formula or data we have.
And usually when this is pointed out you run around shouting "Dark Energy" as if this phrase somehow does the work for you.
I run to nothing. I simply state the factual reality. What we can measure and observe comprises 4% of our entire reality. You berate me for pointing that out and using dark energy in answer to your assertion that all measured energy going into and out of our bodies is accounted for. I am not impressed that the measurable 4% of what is going on in our bodies is accounted for. it in no way refutes my assertions about our consciousness which like dark energy . . . is NOT measurable!
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Old 04-02-2015, 04:27 PM
 
13,493 posts, read 5,020,147 times
Reputation: 1368
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I run to nothing. I simply state the factual reality. What we can measure and observe comprises 4% of our entire reality. You berate me for pointing that out and using dark energy in answer to your assertion that all measured energy going into and out of our bodies is accounted for. I am not impressed that the measurable 4% of what is going on in our bodies is accounted for. it in no way refutes my assertions about our consciousness which like dark energy . . . is NOT measurable!
Directly ... yet
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Old 04-22-2015, 07:25 AM
 
3,637 posts, read 2,703,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I run to nothing. I simply state the factual reality.
It is the leaps you make FROM factual reality - that is the main issue. For example it is a factual reality that we do not know what dark matter and energy is. I get that. We agree on that. But you _use_ that to back up claims you otherwise have no evidence for. You act like our ignorance as a species actually lends credibility to stuff you simply make up.

"We do not know everything - therefore the stuff I make up is credible" is basically your entire position summed up in a single quote.

You are postulating some energy related to consciousness that you have not observed - measured - or evidenced. You simply want it to be so. So you run to "Dark Energy" as a means to fill in the gaps in your story.
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Old 04-22-2015, 09:20 AM
 
13,493 posts, read 5,020,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post
It is the leaps you make FROM factual reality - that is the main issue. For example it is a factual reality that we do not know what dark matter and energy is. I get that. We agree on that. But you _use_ that to back up claims you otherwise have no evidence for. You act like our ignorance as a species actually lends credibility to stuff you simply make up.

"We do not know everything - therefore the stuff I make up is credible" is basically your entire position summed up in a single quote.

You are postulating some energy related to consciousness that you have not observed - measured - or evidenced. You simply want it to be so. So you run to "Dark Energy" as a means to fill in the gaps in your story.
this nailed it mom. From the observation we can say a few things. That's from what we have. No claims are made with what we don't have. wimps, other types of stuff, underestimations. All valid, all based on what is known. Then they go look for it.
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Old 04-22-2015, 02:22 PM
 
40,176 posts, read 26,797,761 times
Reputation: 6057
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I run to nothing. I simply state the factual reality. What we can measure and observe comprises 4% of our entire reality. You berate me for pointing that out and using dark energy in answer to your assertion that all measured energy going into and out of our bodies is accounted for. I am not impressed that the measurable 4% of what is going on in our bodies is accounted for. it in no way refutes my assertions about our consciousness which like dark energy . . . is NOT measurable!
Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post
It is the leaps you make FROM factual reality - that is the main issue. For example it is a factual reality that we do not know what dark matter and energy is. I get that. We agree on that. But you _use_ that to back up claims you otherwise have no evidence for. You act like our ignorance as a species actually lends credibility to stuff you simply make up.
"We do not know everything - therefore the stuff I make up is credible" is basically your entire position summed up in a single quote.
You are postulating some energy related to consciousness that you have not observed - measured - or evidenced. You simply want it to be so. So you run to "Dark Energy" as a means to fill in the gaps in your story.
This is your typical nonsense . . no evidence and making things up. When will you tire of these silly baiting games. We have evidence for dark energy by its EFFECTS and we also have evidence for our consciousness energy by its EFFECTS. . . . like the cognitive content in the posts in this forum. It is the parallel of the measurement problem with dark energy that is the reason I draw the connection. Your "no evidence whatsoever" and "making things up," are just tiresome dismissals to cover for your inability to rebut the reasons for my hypotheses. Your failures and disingenuous tactics are exposed more than sufficiently by now.
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Old 04-22-2015, 03:36 PM
 
13,493 posts, read 5,020,147 times
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not exactly mystic. The effects we see in the brain can be back tracked to the sources, the electron and various molecules moving in the brain. Where that differs in dark matter is that we see the effects but do not know what's causing it. We don't know the source.
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Old 04-22-2015, 06:00 PM
 
40,176 posts, read 26,797,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
This is your typical nonsense . . no evidence and making things up. When will you tire of these silly baiting games. We have evidence for dark energy by its EFFECTS and we also have evidence for our consciousness energy by its EFFECTS. . . . like the cognitive content in the posts in this forum. It is the parallel of the measurement problem with dark energy that is the reason I draw the connection. Your "no evidence whatsoever" and "making things up," are just tiresome dismissals to cover for your inability to rebut the reasons for my hypotheses. Your failures and disingenuous tactics are exposed more than sufficiently by now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
not exactly mystic. The effects we see in the brain can be back tracked to the sources, the electron and various molecules moving in the brain. Where that differs in dark matter is that we see the effects but do not know what's causing it. We don't know the source.
Not exactly, Arach . . . we do not trace YOU or YOUR intellect back to anything. We simply trace the energy transforms in the entire brain that seem to PRODUCE YOU . . . but we cannot trace YOU or your Intellect to anything specific and say THAT is YOU . . . the ONE doing the thinking.
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Old 04-22-2015, 06:17 PM
 
13,493 posts, read 5,020,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Not exactly, Arach . . . we do not trace YOU or YOUR intellect back to anything. We simply trace the energy transforms in the entire brain that seem to PRODUCE YOU . . . but we cannot trace YOU or your Intellect to anything specific and say THAT is YOU . . . the ONE doing the thinking.
I understand. We take you apart and find no "you". So you say the "you" is something else, something deeper. Although I agree with you to a large extent, I feel the "you" was build up on layers of fields and many interactions. Separate those fields, or stop those interactions and there is no more "you". Much like if you take the zinc out of brass It becomes copper and zinc. We don't keep digging deeper to find a "brass field".

Other than that difference I think I have agreed with most things you have said mystic.
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Old 04-22-2015, 07:00 PM
 
40,176 posts, read 26,797,761 times
Reputation: 6057
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Not exactly, Arach . . . we do not trace YOU or YOUR intellect back to anything. We simply trace the energy transforms in the entire brain that seem to PRODUCE YOU . . . but we cannot trace YOU or your Intellect to anything specific and say THAT is YOU . . . the ONE doing the thinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
I understand. We take you apart and find no "you". So you say the "you" is something else, something deeper. Although I agree with you to a large extent, I feel the "you" was build up on layers of fields and many interactions. Separate those fields, or stop those interactions and there is no more "you". Much like if you take the zinc out of brass It becomes copper and zinc. We don't keep digging deeper to find a "brass field".
Other than that difference I think I have agreed with most things you have said mystic.
Peace, brother.
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