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Old 04-23-2015, 06:19 AM
 
13,472 posts, read 4,982,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Peace, brother.
Then Why don't you use what we have instead of describing it via what we don't know?
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Old 04-23-2015, 08:15 AM
 
3,637 posts, read 2,695,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
This is your typical nonsense . . no evidence and making things up.
No thats a description of what you do. You have no evidence of this magical mystical consciousness energy you keep claiming not only exists but exists independent of the body and brain. All energy going into our body is accounted for. There is no energy mysteriously vanishing or being used in unknown processs.

So to push your fantasy you simply have to invent another tier of energy - neither observed nor evidenced - and your sole method to attempt to make your claim credible is to point out the quantity of things we do not know as a species. As if pointing out what we do not know somehow validates something you just made up. "We do not know everything - so perhaps this thing I just made up is true" is basically your position summed up as I said before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
When will you tire of these silly baiting games. We have evidence for dark energy by its EFFECTS and we also have evidence for our consciousness energy by its EFFECTS
Youre twisting again. We do not understand consciousness totally no - but that does not mean you need to invent evidence free unobserved energies in order to explain it. Just because we do not fully understand the process does not magically mean that it can not be explained by the energies we already know go into the body - are fully accounted for - and we measure going around the brain using our instruments of the day.

It is just human hubris affecting you here. You do not understand it - and therefore find distasteful to think that it could be explained by what we already know is there - but that we as a species just are too ignorant to do so yet. No - you can not subscribe to that. It seems so special and magical and awesome to you - that you feel there simply HAS to be something else to explain it even more deep and msytical and beyond us.

But as I said - all energy going into us is accounted for. So you are postulating energy neither seen - measured - or evidenced. You are simply making it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
tiresome dismissals to cover for your inability to rebut the reasons for my hypotheses. Your failures and disingenuous tactics are exposed more than sufficiently by now.
And as usual when someone does not agree with you - you just get all personal and insulting. But the fact still remains - when the cloud of your tantrum settles - that there is nothing there to rebut. You are simply ASSERTING the existence of an energy you have no evidence for or measurement or observation of. And one can not rebut baseless assertion other than to point out it is a baseless assertion.

In an unusual moment of clarity another user described it beautifully. You attempt to support your propositions by describing them in terms of things we do not know - rather than in terms of things we do. It is "god of the gaps" you offer us - all the way down.
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post
us.

But as I said - all energy going into us is accounted for. So you are postulating energy neither seen - measured - or evidenced. You are simply making it up.


all of it? Not exactly true, but I get what you mean. I do the "overstating" thang way to much.
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Old 04-23-2015, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
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I just noticed The New Message for Atheists is no longer so new. This thread is a year old.

Can we have a new message for atheists please?
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Old 04-23-2015, 04:01 PM
 
40,039 posts, read 26,720,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
This is your typical nonsense . . no evidence and making things up. When will you tire of these silly baiting games. We have evidence for dark energy by its EFFECTS and we also have evidence for our consciousness energy by its EFFECTS. . . . like the cognitive content in the posts in this forum. It is the parallel of the measurement problem with dark energy that is the reason I draw the connection. Your "no evidence whatsoever" and "making things up," are just tiresome dismissals to cover for your inability to rebut the reasons for my hypotheses. Your failures and disingenuous tactics are exposed more than sufficiently by now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post
No thats a description of what you do. You have no evidence of this magical mystical consciousness energy you keep claiming not only exists but exists independent of the body and brain. All energy going into our body is accounted for. There is no energy mysteriously vanishing or being used in unknown processs.
So to push your fantasy you simply have to invent another tier of energy - neither observed nor evidenced - and your sole method to attempt to make your claim credible is to point out the quantity of things we do not know as a species.
We do not understand consciousness totally no - but that does not mean you need to invent evidence free unobserved energies in order to explain it. Just because we do not fully understand the process does not magically mean that it can not be explained by the energies we already know go into the body - are fully accounted for - and we measure going around the brain using our instruments of the day.
But as I said - all energy going into us is accounted for. So you are postulating energy neither seen - measured - or evidenced. You are simply making it up.
You are simply ASSERTING the existence of an energy you have no evidence for or measurement or observation of. And one can not rebut baseless assertion other than to point out it is a baseless assertion.
Broken record! There is evidence of dark energy, monumentus. It is NOT something I made up. It is far more prevalent than the measured energy you are relying on. I didn't make that up either. You cannot know that all energy is accounted for when we can only measure 4% of what exists. We cannot measure what leaves the body upon death . . . but whatever it is . . . it is indisputably GONE. Perfectly functional bodies with no disease or dysfunction die and cannot be resuscitated. Why? What is missing?
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Old 04-23-2015, 06:54 PM
 
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why not use what we do know instead of what we don't know? I mean it is ok to use gravity formulas the way we do without the 6 times more stuff around us. We don't calculate gravity based on what we don't know is there.
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Old 04-24-2015, 05:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Broken record! There is evidence of dark energy
Then yes indeed you are being a broken record for sure. Because you keep repeating these six words over and over again despite the fact I have never diagreed - rebutted it - or argued with it. You say it over and over as if you are making some kind of point or even counter point when you are doing neither.

To be pedantic no we do not have evidence of dark energy. What we have is a result we can not understand and we call it dark energy. And Dark Matter. In fact using the words energy or matter is highly misleading - as it makes it sound like we have some idea what it is. But we do not. We could just as usefully called them Dark Harry and Dark Timmy. They might in fact - for all we know - turn out to not exist but merely be a massive error in our current knowledge or calculations.

But that aside - saying over and over and over that we have evidence dark energy exists has NOTHING AT ALL EVEN A LITTLE to do with anything I am calling you on. What I am calling you on is you are using this ignorance in our knowledge AS evidence for things you have simply made up. I have no real issue with you claiming we have evidence for Dark Energy. What I have issue with is you pretending this means anything at all in support of the things you claim about consciousness and the after life. They do not.

So in short - you are simply claiming to have not made up the things I never once claim you did make up. All to dodge defense of the things I actually am saying you are making up. Like an after life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
We cannot measure what leaves the body upon death . . . but whatever it is . . . it is indisputably GONE.
Except it is disputable because you have not actually shown anything "leaves" at all. What leaves a match when you blow the flame out? Where did the flame "go"? The answer is nothing and nowhere because nothing has "left" here. The flame is merely an emergent expression of the reactions going on in the head of the match. When the reaction is stopped - the emergent expressions of it stop.

It is your contention that something goes somewhere. But you can neither demonstrate the existence of that something - or that it left or went anywhere. And all you do when asked to do this is wave the words "dark energy" and "dark matter" around as if this proves something. It does not. It is merely "god of the gaps" as you use ignorance as evidence for something you have simply made up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Perfectly functional bodies with no disease or dysfunction die and cannot be resuscitated. Why? What is missing?
Again it is not that something is missing. It is that the processes of life have been stopped and restarting them is beyond our capabilities. That does not mean something is gone or missing. It just means that re-establishing those processes is beyond our ken.

Our lack of capability to restart such processes is not evidence something is gone or missing. It is just evidence we are not capable of doing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
all of it? Not exactly true, but I get what you mean
I am not aware of any missing and unaccounted for energy in the biological processes. If you are then inform mystic of it - his hypothesis could do with it.
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monumentus View Post
.



I am not aware of any missing and unaccounted for energy in the biological processes. If you are then inform mystic of it - his hypothesis could do with it.
You said "all". I mean you have one, I am just using one here. a particle that travels through you at a rate of 10,000's per second every second. sorry man, it's just a fact, nothing I can do about it.
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Old 04-24-2015, 06:24 AM
 
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Nothing to do with what I was talking about.
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Old 04-24-2015, 05:22 PM
 
2,778 posts, read 1,426,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .EL. View Post
THE PARENT ENTITY (Summary)

[font=Verdana]Maybe there’s an explanation beyond religion and atheist theory. The problem with current beliefs is that they are not observable in nature. Life is not created by supernatural gods or inorganic objects. We need a theory that follows the laws of nature.

Some atheists depend upon “The Nothing Theory” because they have been traumatized by theist ideology. Just saying, “We come from nothing, we are nothing, and we will be nothing” isn’t good enough. This is a tedious theory that closes your mind and inspires no one. We need a new theory. We need intelligent innovative ideas. We need to extrapolate from what is known to what is unknown.

Conclusion: Life begins through conception and birth. This planet is the seed from which life grows; another entity is the source from which life on this planet originates. This entity is a parent of life on this planet. Born of this world we are left alone on this planet to grow and evolve. Creation is a natural process. Creation and evolution are synergetic. We were created to evolve.
I'm not going to go through all the pages of this thread, but I'm pretty sure that you don't really understand what atheism is, and the idea that you believe you're going 'beyond' atheism with this stuff is a pretty clear sign of that.

Atheists don't believe in deities... that doesn't mean they believe in 'nothing'. You can have all kinds of beliefs about the universe, different dimensions, higher planes and states of consciousness while still rejecting the notion of a creator or creators or myths about the creation of the Earth or the universe. Some people even argue that Buddhism is an atheistic religion. Being an atheist doesn't mean you assume that science has all of the answers or that everything that can be known is already known or at least mostly understood. If anything, atheists are MORE free to grow and learn and evolve because they don't need to tie everything back to dogmatic beliefs about creation or God.

For the record-- people who believe in 'nothing' are called nihilists.
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