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Old 04-23-2014, 07:30 AM
 
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I am an optimist. Even while, even if the poor are not getting poorer while the rich are getting richer, while the dumb seem to be getting dumber, the smart are getting smarter.

The fact is that the many - headed seem to follow the voices at the top, so we have to ensure that the voices are the ones speaking through reason rather than illogical emotion (tapes down pointy ears so they don't show). In fact I believe that we have the humanist system in place already,just as we have humanist morals in place already, and religion just takes all the credit (for the good stuff, anyway, while blaming the bad stuff on a 'decline in religion').

There is a risk, but not a serious one, because I believe we can see what will result already. If anything,a decline in the idiocies of religion will only help make things better.

An increase in reasoning and a rationalist worldview, especially one where we understand how so much of our problems are based on not understanding the brute survival instincts that drive us, I do believe, may not only be beneficial to us as a species, but essential.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:40 AM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
5,846 posts, read 3,354,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpc1 View Post
So, say we topple Christianity. Can we be sure that some other pernicious belief system doesn't fill the vacuum it left behind?

Homo sapiens is biologically wired with an inclination toward religious belief.

I think it would take more than just the internet to cure humankind of the God Delusion.

Maybe I'm just a pessimist.
Unfortunately, I tend to agree. There is no documented period in human history when any civilzation contained a clear-cut majority of non-believers. Even if one God was kicked to the curb, another one was already making inroads throughout the populace. There was never a case of a society being "in between" religions and maintaining non-belief until a better god came along.

Granted, we know more now about our natural world than ever before and the hypotheses and theories proposed are far more rigorously tested and vetted before ever seeing the light of day. With that change, I suppose it's possible that a society could shed its religious beliefs for a secular population. The age of mass media seems to be working against religion rather than for it.

I'm not sure which person is credited with being the first to say, "Always bet on stupid," but those are words to live by. Even the Bible itself demonstrates my point in that Moses is up on the mountain for just a few weeks and already the Hebrews abandoned Yahweh (despite seeing all kinds of miracles) to worship a stupid golden calf. The Hebrews didn't convert to atheism or agnosticism - they had to worship something, so they just invented a cow god and worshiped it. Just like that.
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:34 AM
 
4,456 posts, read 3,703,267 times
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Unfortunately, I tend to agree.
So then may I ask why would it be apparently necessary to kick one of the two belief systems to the curb in this quest for say secular supremacy??? Looks to me this is like a married couple who are destined to be forever and ever to be intertwined unless the argument to such an extent that it becomes a fight to the death and then we'd be all up the creek without a paddle.....er..perhaps not good for the species...;-)...
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:50 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Originally Posted by travric View Post
So then may I ask why would it be apparently necessary to kick one of the two belief systems to the curb in this quest for say secular supremacy??? Looks to me this is like a married couple who are destined to be forever and ever to be intertwined unless the argument to such an extent that it becomes a fight to the death and then we'd be all up the creek without a paddle.....er..perhaps not good for the species...;-)...
Secular supremecy would mean that Religion would be a private matter, instead of a public one. Atheists wouldn't want such a thing unless they were dumb or apathetic, or if they wanted religion to fester in the shadows of it's ivory towers; to later seek worldly power once again. Atheists need to encourage atheism, not secularism. Secularists can be the religious or the non-religious. Although in today's society the religious get more privileges.

If you dont civilly push back ( by writing to the editor about the inappeopeiate bias and title) then you are basically complacent in the denigration of atheism as an acceptable viewpoint.
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Old 04-23-2014, 02:58 PM
 
13,677 posts, read 13,583,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpc1 View Post
So, say we topple Christianity. Can we be sure that some other pernicious belief system doesn't fill the vacuum it left behind?

Homo sapiens is biologically wired with an inclination toward religious belief.

I think it would take more than just the internet to cure humankind of the God Delusion.

Maybe I'm just a pessimist.
I would say rather that homo sapiens is wired with an inclination towards explanation and inquiry. In the stone age, deities were the obvious explanation for natural events. As empirically based science has expanded, it has generally taken up spaces previously occupied by religion, except in the case of extremists or those who do not have access to or the education to understand scientific findings.

We want answers. I don't think we have much of a biological preference as to whether those answers are produced via religoin or via science.
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Old 04-24-2014, 10:30 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
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I agree that the internet is pretty bad for religion.

It definitely killed even the small amount of religious faith I once had. lol.
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Old 04-24-2014, 11:17 PM
 
12,540 posts, read 12,520,666 times
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Originally Posted by travric View Post
So then may I ask why would it be apparently necessary to kick one of the two belief systems to the curb in this quest for say secular supremacy??? Looks to me this is like a married couple who are destined to be forever and ever to be intertwined unless the argument to such an extent that it becomes a fight to the death and then we'd be all up the creek without a paddle.....er..perhaps not good for the species...;-)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Secular supremecy would mean that Religion would be a private matter, instead of a public one. Atheists wouldn't want such a thing unless they were dumb or apathetic, or if they wanted religion to fester in the shadows of it's ivory towers; to later seek worldly power once again. Atheists need to encourage atheism, not secularism. Secularists can be the religious or the non-religious. Although in today's society the religious get more privileges.

If you dont civilly push back ( by writing to the editor about the inappeopeiate bias and title) then you are basically complacent in the denigration of atheism as an acceptable viewpoint.
"Secular supremacy." I like the sound of that. I like it a lot.
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Old 04-25-2014, 07:30 PM
 
605 posts, read 465,023 times
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This shows that superstition relies heavily on ignorance and silencing opposing viewpoints.
This is why there exist blasphemy laws in many muslim nations.

Of course religious and creationist interests employ the internet with as much if not greater vigor than those challenging theism. But the ideas they put forth are the same, familiar ones that have existed for centuries (and how could it be otherwise), so the only new element being introduced into the minds of internet users are those providing rational and scientific perspectives that were previously not well understood by many.
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Old 04-26-2014, 12:47 PM
 
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Although in today's society the religious get more privileges.
And pehaps that is fueling the rise of the so-called 'New' atheism where proselytzing is of a more 'in your face' type that residng in the heart? Looks to me like something out of the Who's 'Tommy' where the mantra is sort of a, 'We're not gonna take it' kind of thing. And all due perhaps to the apparent jealousy arising from those 'privileges'?

I'd think belief constructs should be taken on their merits without resorting to a barrage fueled by seeming anger and frustration. It seems a certain segment had that pugnacious 'style' that appealed to those 'new' atheists. That din really affects the propagation of the message. I'd say atheists can take a page from the early Christians in their quest for a singular atheistic society, i.e. go quiet and slow, keep the 'noise' down and let people come to it as they may. If its destined to be a hit it'll happen. But you can't beat things into people. People I'd say don't 'learn' that way.
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Old 04-27-2014, 08:57 AM
 
Location: "Arlen" Texas
2,384 posts, read 1,556,750 times
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More non-believers coming out of the (other) closet! Thank god!
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