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Old 05-05-2014, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
9,019 posts, read 6,557,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan2008 View Post
Here...Here!! The internet is a factor in young people especially leaving faith and identifying as non religious or part of no faith. This will only continue. Exposure to information and differing ideas is a great way to reduce the influence of faith and religion. It's certainly one good thing the internet has brought.
I don't really get why people can't think on their own.

That's what I did.
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Old 05-08-2014, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Glasgow, UK
870 posts, read 818,930 times
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Well, I'm a bit of a Luddite myself, and would prefer to have lived my adult years before the invention of the Internet. But credit where it's due. Still going to be a glacially slow process, though. Most peoples minds are fairly calcified when it comes to the matter of religion
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:19 AM
 
4,456 posts, read 3,731,009 times
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I
Quote:
am very optimistic about a nearly theism-free environment, but it will just be
500 to 1000 years in the future, that's all.
hmmm...no freedom of choice then????????? Just don't think uniformity is healthy for the societies and cultures. Allows a hardening of the arteries. At least now the blood's flowing. Has to..... to keep the gift of living life 'interestingly'.
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Old 05-13-2014, 02:30 PM
 
7,148 posts, read 9,414,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
Still have a very long way to go.

I haven't noticed any difference at all, since the internet or even lately. I only know one other real life open atheist that I have in person contact with.
As previously mentioned we are in a LDR.
And an LDR is what?
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:49 AM
 
4,456 posts, read 3,731,009 times
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Quote:
I am very optimistic about a nearly theism-free environment, but it will just
be 500 to 1000 years in the future, that's all.
You know the question there is would it be important to you in how that goal is achieved?

Today some Christians around the world are denied practicing their religion. I'd suggest that we can never be sure that your goal of a theism-free environment will not result in a thesitic society born through violence or reprehensible repression. I'd think as long as religious persecution exists in the world societies and cultures are on a slippery slope when it comes to formulating 'types' of societies. It could just be a dirty rroad to an a-theistic heaven. I'd let the earth breathe beliefs in and out. I wouldn't like to see a muzzle over everybody's mouth or brain.
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Old 05-20-2014, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,198 posts, read 9,159,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
You know the question there is would it be important to you in how that goal is achieved?

Today some Christians around the world are denied practicing their religion. I'd suggest that we can never be sure that your goal of a theism-free environment will not result in a thesitic society born through violence or reprehensible repression. I'd think as long as religious persecution exists in the world societies and cultures are on a slippery slope when it comes to formulating 'types' of societies. It could just be a dirty rroad to an a-theistic heaven. I'd let the earth breathe beliefs in and out. I wouldn't like to see a muzzle over everybody's mouth or brain.
I am expecting it to evolve organically as a natural outgrowth of scientific inquiry and an ethos of quality education for all citizens. Societies in which this happens will have a natural advantage over those where it doesn't, and eventually, I believe that a sufficiently pervasive rising tide lifts all boats.

I am not interested in anyone having anything less than freedom of thought. That includes the freedom to not think, or to think unsubstantiated things, if that's a person's actual desire.

My wife and I had a conversation about this just this morning, in relation to people of above average intelligence and how that sometimes gets compartmentalized. My late 2nd wife for instance was insanely bright in narrow areas -- mostly in the IT field -- but she was oddly willing to buy logical fallacies in other areas -- mostly religious areas. Such as, "because the belief in an afterlife is pervasive, that means there must be an afterlife". She was absolutely entitled to her theism and I did not want to deny her real or perceived comfort that brought her in her dying days, just because I was headed in the opposite direction from her at the time. But I'd like to think that if she'd been born a dozen generations later than she was, she'd be highly unlikely to have given credence to such ideas -- just as now, even children know the importance of personal hygiene, whereas 500 years ago adults had no concept of it; at most, a bath was for cosmetic and comfort purposes, not for disease prevention. No one held a gun to anyone's head or conducted pogroms to inculcate society with an understanding of personal hygiene, and they needn't do that to inculcate a love for rational discourse and evidenced-based beliefs, either.
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Old 05-22-2014, 06:23 PM
 
4,456 posts, read 3,731,009 times
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Quote:
I am expecting it to evolve organically as a natural outgrowth of scientific
inquiry and an ethos of quality education for all citizens. Societies in which
this happens will have a natural advantage over those where it doesn't, and
eventually, I believe that a sufficiently pervasive rising tide lifts all
boats.
You know if polls and research on this subject is any indication I'd think we are finding that that 'natural outgrowth' you speak of is surely driving more fluidity and more positions in religious thought today. There is a change going on as we see societies going more towards the secular. Personally, I have don't have an issue with that. I do think the religious and the secular can live side by side. What I thought I may ask is why is religious belief is made fun of and adherents are caustically ridiculed by some who hold secularized viewpoints about life, existence etc? It's like a bit of venom is spewed out at them. I'm not sure but what can be the point of the aggression? If one can be free say with a-theism why not with religiosity? Two sides of the same coin. I say live and let live.
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Old 05-22-2014, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,198 posts, read 9,159,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
You know if polls and research on this subject is any indication I'd think we are finding that that 'natural outgrowth' you speak of is surely driving more fluidity and more positions in religious thought today. There is a change going on as we see societies going more towards the secular. Personally, I have don't have an issue with that. I do think the religious and the secular can live side by side. What I thought I may ask is why is religious belief is made fun of and adherents are caustically ridiculed by some who hold secularized viewpoints about life, existence etc? It's like a bit of venom is spewed out at them. I'm not sure but what can be the point of the aggression? If one can be free say with a-theism why not with religiosity? Two sides of the same coin. I say live and let live.
I totally agree, and in practice that's the way it mostly is in meatspace. I wouldn't take what goes on here on this forum and R&S as normative. It's a special case -- people are here specifically to debate and confront existential beliefs, not avoid them as is standard practice in the Real World.

What you see as "caustic" or "aggression" I see as just the inherent reality that the theist / atheist debate is asymmetrical. I don't see it as incumbent on unbelievers to accept burdens of proof that don't belong to us, or to ignore blatant logical fallacies. This is really a "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" kinda thing. No one is forcing anyone to engage here. But if you engage in any kind of online debate, you have to be prepared to defend your position as substantiated, justified and reasonable. And you have to be prepared to play by standard house rules for this kind of thing, not the relaxed standards prevalent in theist discussion circles, where all you need is a "gospel gun" loaded with proof-texts and where your major premises are automatically assumed correct.
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Old 05-25-2014, 10:17 PM
 
Location: the Orion Spur
91 posts, read 86,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
A good 'atheist -stumper' and I have often thought about it. Anecdotal or not, it makes a point which our pal Gldrule has mooted-whatever the rationale, you cannot overcome the need. desire and preference of people for religion.

Well, we shall see. It certainly is not going to shut us up. Putting on old appropriate religious films at festival times does not persuade me that people will always believe. Neither does the argument that the Bible is the best - selling book translated into more languages than any other.

That is an excellent point. I would enjoy knowing how this will play out over the next 200 years. I do believe that no matter what happens, Religion will lose its political power and become increasingly marginalized.

Obviously, I could be very wrong. But what I sense is that this time we live in now is the beginning of Religion's last attempt at a surge, which I think will fail. Think about how things will change over the next 30 years once the older generation dies off.
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Old 05-25-2014, 10:22 PM
 
Location: the Orion Spur
91 posts, read 86,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by averysgore View Post
Definitely. As recently as the mid-90's, if you wanted contrary opinion, you had to go do research yourself. Browse the nonbelievers' books in the library or bookstore, if they even carried them.

It saves a ton of time having a massive "Biblical Contradictions" website at the tips of your fingers.
Exactly! I credit the Internet with solidifying my non-belief.
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