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Old 04-28-2014, 09:52 PM
 
12,540 posts, read 12,522,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
Have you read any of my other posts? Just saying what he's ultimately saying, which is that morality is arbitrary.
No. No idea who you are, and you have not posted in this thread until now.
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:55 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
3,067 posts, read 2,107,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110 View Post
No. No idea who you are, and you have not posted in this thread until now.
lol

make sure you read the edited version of the previous, by the way.

also, I'll edit to point you to an ok post I made in your very thread regarding the controversially headlined NPR article which argues for a statistically significant correlation between Internet use and godlessness. Last one in, so easy to access that even you might catch it.

Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 04-28-2014 at 10:04 PM..
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,279,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110 View Post
No, it's not "anything goes and there is no longer any right or wrong."

Come on, now. Think about what you are saying for a minute, because you are implying that atheists have no ethics. What, do you think we all run around holding up banks and murdering people who tick us off in traffic?

You don't need a deity to know right from wrong.
I suspect that is what he is saying.

Some of us Theists carry the mistaken notion that Atheists `are void of Morality.

I suspect the OP is trying to convince himself he is not an Atheist as he has moral standards. The reality actually may be he has come to the conclusion Christianity is false. He can not seem to reconcile believing God exists but Christianity is false. Perhaps he equates Theism as meaning Christianity?

It may be the OP has no desire to investigate Atheism, but is looking for a reason to remain Christian?

Just my opinion. But it may be something the OP should think about.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:52 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,739,597 times
Reputation: 1328
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakfish View Post
I tend to look at things from a logical point of view. Science is always changing since there are so many things we don't understand and as our understanding increases the science changes too if you catch my drift. Not really swayed by historical arguments much either since much like the bible interpretation can change perception.

I can't allow myself to be swayed by moral arguments either for variety of reasons that have some rather scary connotations. When people make moral arguments to negate God what they are really saying is, "If I were God I would do something different".

Once you come to the conclusion that there is no God you make yourself the standard of morality. Once you do that, anything goes and there is no longer any right or wrong. That is the scary part.
People who have "God" also make themselves the standard of morality and pretend not to. This has been shown in many psychology studies on where people think their "God" stands on an issue and whether their "God" is convinced by rational and suggestion along with them; which "he" is.

Realizing that your own human standards aren't divine (as much as you might pretend them to be) really brings people back down to Earth. This is true for both agnostic theists, deists, and atheists. Being back down on Earth might allow you to decide to think only of yourself freely (since with "God" you also thought only of yourself but tried to steer from danger), but atheists and "equalist" polytheists don't have to make themselves the standard of morality. Standards and Principles are freely decided, even atheists don't have to think only of ethical egoism. The scare tactic is only smoke and mirrors created as religious propaganda.

The moral arguments against the ideas of God are just a branch of logical arguments against "Him."

I don't think Might makes Rights, but I do think that with Great Power comes Great Responsibility.

Its not always big fish eat little fish, sometimes it's tons of little fish eat one fat fish, or even one little fish eats a tiny bit of a big fish that is too big to notice.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:54 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
3,067 posts, read 2,107,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
It may be the OP has no desire to investigate Atheism, but is looking for a reason to remain Christian?

Just my opinion. But it may be something the OP should think about.
Read the third post. Anyone who says that they've always been skeptical by nature and is starting to apply that skepticism to religion, well, 90% that they end up atheist.

Also, I deleted the part of your comment which pertained to this, but, contrary to what most of my fellow atheists would like to believe, we are in fact ultimately devoid of any ultimate code of morality. We are beholden to whatever happens to be in style at the moment, whether it be closer to secular humanism or barbarism. Whatever is fashionable with the populace or the powers that be. Logic and morality have little to do with one another, and that will ultimately be our undoing as a perhaps enlightened species.
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:00 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,739,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
Read the third post. Anyone who says that they've always been skeptical by nature and is starting to apply that skepticism to religion, well, 90% that they end up atheist.

Also, I deleted the part of your comment which pertained to this, but, contrary to what most of my fellow atheists would like to believe, we are in fact ultimately devoid of any ultimate code of morality. We are beholden to whatever happens to be in style at the moment, whether it be closer to secular humanism or barbarism. Whatever is fashionable with the populace or the powers that be. Logic and morality have little to do with one another, and that will ultimately be our undoing as a perhaps enlightened species.
Some people are beholden to fads, others have natural inclinations. We'll see which gene pool is able to allow that population to last the longest (probably a combination of both phenotypes).
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Old 04-28-2014, 11:07 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
3,067 posts, read 2,107,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Some people are beholden to fads, others have natural inclinations. We'll see which gene pool is able to allow that population to last the longest (probably a combination of both phenotypes).
Started to reply, but apparently you'd edited to add the second sentence. I'll now absorb that addition. You seem as though you care about the fate of your random allele of ALB 4q11-q13 several generations hence--why? What is it to you?

Anyway, every non-psychopath (and perhaps even many of them, as I don't know the science there) is beholden to both natural inclinations and fads, so don't subject me to such a false dilemma as that.
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Old 04-29-2014, 12:11 AM
 
Location: NW AR
2,438 posts, read 2,170,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakfish View Post
I was born to a Christian family and have studied the bible my whole life. After 30 years I find myself questioning everything I have believed. At this point I am only searching for truth, and if that truth turns out to be that God doesn't exist then so be it. The question I have for you in this thread is how do you atheists answer the Biblical Prophesy argument? The Idea that there are Old Testament prophecies foretelling the virgin birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus? This is one aspect I am somewhat hung up on. If this can be disproven it will discredit the whole Bible in my mind. I have lots of other random questions in my mind as well but I just want to address this one right now. I know many of you have been where I am now so I appreciate your time.
Thanks
That's amazing. You have indulged in spirit and now you are saying it was fruitless. Really? In my case, one can't deny a gift as much as a person wants to abolish it, or the names Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. Moses, Aaron and Miriam.
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Old 04-29-2014, 12:13 AM
 
Location: NW AR
2,438 posts, read 2,170,490 times
Reputation: 2265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
Started to reply, but apparently you'd edited to add the second sentence. I'll now absorb that addition. You seem as though you care about the fate of your random allele of ALB 4q11-q13 several generations hence--why? What is it to you?

Anyway, every non-psychopath (and perhaps even many of them, as I don't know the science there) is beholden to both natural inclinations and fads, so don't subject me to such a false dilemma as that.
I can appreciate your posts but truly have never seen as much separation as you imply or apply.

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Old 04-29-2014, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Sarasota, FL
1,714 posts, read 1,921,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBeam33 View Post
While I understand where you're coming from, you do understand that there is a difference between God and religion, right? And that you can have God without religion too.
There is no difference between God and religion. People like to think they can be "spiritual" without being "religious", too. It's all complete hogwash. There actually is one difference between "God" and "spirituality", though. That is if your spiritual, you arent paying to support the church and their pomp and circumstance, your saving it for yourself. It's a step up at least.

God? Religion? Spirituality? That's just believing in something that doesnt exist.

There are no forms of matter or energy that could be conveyed as any of the three. We've detected all the particles we possibly can. Larger particles would decay too fast, and lighter particles wouldnt interact with us, everything in between we have discovered. That's why we know a soul does not exist. If a soul existed, we would have detected it. There's a reason 93% of theoretical physicists such as myself (a particle physicist) dont believe in a "God". We would have detected it.
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