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Old 04-29-2014, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Sarasota, FL
1,714 posts, read 1,922,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
Started to reply, but apparently you'd edited to add the second sentence. I'll now absorb that addition. You seem as though you care about the fate of your random allele of ALB 4q11-q13 several generations hence--why? What is it to you?

Anyway, every non-psychopath (and perhaps even many of them, as I don't know the science there) is beholden to both natural inclinations and fads, so don't subject me to such a false dilemma as that.
centromere–3′-DBP-5′–5′-ALB-3′–5′-AFP-3′–5′-AFM3′–telomere.
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Old 04-29-2014, 01:07 AM
 
Location: NW AR
2,438 posts, read 2,170,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beninfl View Post
There's a reason 93% of theoretical physicists such as myself (a particle physicist) dont believe in a "God". We would have detected it.
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Old 04-29-2014, 01:54 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the Kona coffee fields
834 posts, read 942,203 times
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Yakfish, faith has doubts. Because one choses faith without having witnessed higher powers in their life. Atheists have doubts as well as they have no proof of 'nothingness' either.

And science does not give absolute certainty, as every scientist will tell you. Science is making the world ours. And that's what the bible told us to do: To make the world ours, not to subjugate and abuse, but utilize it and learn. The more science finds out the more grandiose the world appears to us.
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Old 04-29-2014, 06:22 AM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,885 posts, read 3,974,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakfish View Post
I was born to a Christian family and have studied the bible my whole life. After 30 years I find myself questioning everything I have believed. At this point I am only searching for truth, and if that truth turns out to be that God doesn't exist then so be it. The question I have for you in this thread is how do you atheists answer the Biblical Prophesy argument? The Idea that there are Old Testament prophecies foretelling the virgin birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus? This is one aspect I am somewhat hung up on. If this can be disproven it will discredit the whole Bible in my mind. I have lots of other random questions in my mind as well but I just want to address this one right now. I know many of you have been where I am now so I appreciate your time.
Thanks
After 30 years, you are aware that the 4 gospels were written 50 to 120 years after the fact, and not by eyewitnesses and also not in a language which neither Jesus nor any of his apostles spoke? They were written by a few followers who told a story which would support their belief that Jesus was the Messiah.
This is how myth evolves. read Joseph Campbell's works, esp Power of Myth

Let me give you another example. I am sure you are familiar with this individual.


The popular American folk hero depicted is Davy Crockett. Notice anything wrong with this picture?
Davy Crockett NEVER wore a coonskin cap in real life. Disney started that myth, and now most Americans think of a coonskin cap when they think of Davy Crockett. That is how powerful mythology is.

The Bible is a powerful book of mythology. But it is just that. It is full of fables and stories which simply cannot be proven and in many cases, already have been dis-proven. While some do not want to see this, and those who make money off of you do not want you to see this, the facts remain. The Bible is a book of myth, and in the 21st century, most of us here have realized that we can do a lot better than the bronze and iron age scribes who copied tales and stories from various cults and sects.

And we do better without a book of antiquated fiction. Proof of that is in our accomplishments and lives.
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Old 04-29-2014, 06:33 AM
 
45 posts, read 34,714 times
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The more I study the closer I come to the conclusion the Bible is unreliable. Just admitting that is very difficult. The consequences of discarding my faith will have far reaching effects of my life and my family. I may not ever reveal my true beliefs while my parents are still living because I know how much it will hurt them. Then there is my wife and her side of the family. The effects will be similar to them as well.

As for morality... I'm not going to base my belief or lack thereof on morals.
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Old 04-29-2014, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
3,881 posts, read 7,306,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC01 View Post
Logic. The burden of proof always lies with the person making the claim, not with someone else to disprove. An example of this would be: "Bertrand declares that a teapot is, at this very moment, in orbit around the Sun between the Earth and Mars, and that because no one can prove him wrong, his claim is therefore a valid one" (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof). This particular logical fallacy ties in very closely with religion. Many things in the Bible have been shown to be false, but what has been shown to be true? Many Christians claim that the Bible is the living word of God, but I ask for proof. Why should I believe that a book is the word of God because it says so in that very book? I can't believe that.

So, I guess my answer is that I just don't believe them. I don't see any proof besides the "because-I-said-so" argument. In summary, I don't attempt to discredit the Bible: I only ask for proof on why I should believe the Bible.
^^^I feel like this sums up my response well.^^^

I feel like how can anyone truly know these things? Someone writes a book and tells others that its the actual word of god. How do we know? It didn't come straight from a god but from another, mortal, human, so how could I believe otherwise? Why should we believe otherwise?

If I were a god and I wanted to deliver a message down to the people, I would not entrust, faulty, imperfect humans, I would deliver it myself or in a way that would be infallible, provable and definite. I just think if the bible and god and jesus and all that were true, it would be as factual and absolute as the sun, the air, the earth, the water.

I wouldn't ask some guys, to transcript my message for me and deliver it to the people. We all know how accurate work of mouth can get.

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Old 04-29-2014, 08:42 AM
 
12,540 posts, read 12,525,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
After 30 years, you are aware that the 4 gospels were written 50 to 120 years after the fact, and not by eyewitnesses and also not in a language which neither Jesus nor any of his apostles spoke? They were written by a few followers who told a story which would support their belief that Jesus was the Messiah.
This is how myth evolves. read Joseph Campbell's works, esp Power of Myth
Funny, but back in Catholic school, in theology class, we learned about when the Gospels were written. Too bad I blew my chance at getting into the honors class (and therefore having my grade for the class multiplied by 1.1 for honor roll purposes) by raising my hand and asking, "So if the writers wrote the Gospels about 70 AD, and Jesus died when he was 33, if all the disciples were about his age, that would make them all in their 90s or over 100. But I thought people didn't live that long back then? And how come nobody wrote all this down when it was happening?"

Thank goodness that class was taught by an ever-patient Franciscan, because had the teacher been a Dominican, I might have ended up with a detention.
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Old 04-29-2014, 08:53 AM
 
12,540 posts, read 12,525,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Crabcakes View Post
^^^I feel like this sums up my response well.^^^

I feel like how can anyone truly know these things? Someone writes a book and tells others that its the actual word of god. How do we know? It didn't come straight from a god but from another, mortal, human, so how could I believe otherwise? Why should we believe otherwise?

If I were a god and I wanted to deliver a message down to the people, I would not entrust, faulty, imperfect humans, I would deliver it myself or in a way that would be infallible, provable and definite. I just think if the bible and god and jesus and all that were true, it would be as factual and absolute as the sun, the air, the earth, the water.

I wouldn't ask some guys, to transcript my message for me and deliver it to the people. We all know how accurate work of mouth can get.

The Gospels are a lesson in plagiarism. Look at all the strikingly similar stories that came before, like Horus. Let's see: his mom was a virgin, there was a star in the east, and he even had three kings pay him homage. His life story is pretty much the same as Jesus', with him going around performing miracles like walking on water and healing the sick with his 12 followers, and he taught in a temple at age 12 and was baptized at age 30. Horus, too, was betrayed by one of his followers. And the best part is that he was nailed to wood, died, and came to life again three days later.

Too bad the myth of Horus goes back to 3,000 BC.
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Old 04-29-2014, 09:22 AM
 
40,053 posts, read 26,735,309 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Crabcakes View Post
I feel like how can anyone truly know these things? Someone writes a book and tells others that its the actual word of god. How do we know? It didn't come straight from a god but from another, mortal, human, so how could I believe otherwise? Why should we believe otherwise?
If I were a god and I wanted to deliver a message down to the people, I would not entrust, faulty, imperfect humans, I would deliver it myself or in a way that would be infallible, provable and definite. I just think if the bible and god and jesus and all that were true, it would be as factual and absolute as the sun, the air, the earth, the water.
I wouldn't ask some guys, to transcript my message for me and deliver it to the people. We all know how accurate work of mouth can get.
I have no problem with these reservations whatsoever. They are quite reasonable. Prior to my encounter in deep meditation . . . I held the same views.
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:12 AM
 
2,441 posts, read 1,938,885 times
Reputation: 4644
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakfish View Post
The more I study the closer I come to the conclusion the Bible is unreliable. Just admitting that is very difficult. The consequences of discarding my faith will have far reaching effects of my life and my family. I may not ever reveal my true beliefs while my parents are still living because I know how much it will hurt them. Then there is my wife and her side of the family. The effects will be similar to them as well.

As for morality... I'm not going to base my belief or lack thereof on morals.
Yakfish, Greta Christina just wrote a book which might help you.

http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Out-Ath...8787944&sr=1-1
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