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Old 04-29-2014, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, FL
1,714 posts, read 1,920,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Nah, there is an infinity of possible things that haven't been or can't be detected. I think you are talking about all the particles necessary to model our universe from their particle properties. That does negate a need to resort ti supernaturalism and superstition as models a bit; but the flying tea pot could still be orbiting the sky.
If there is a flying teapot orbiting the sky, it's made of atoms, and we know everything about them already. Atoms are made up of up quarks, down quarks and electrons, each atom is just has a different number of them, a different configuration.

Again, if an elementary particle on the Standard Model has too much mass, it would decay in fractions of a second and couldnt possibly be within our bodies. To be in our bodies it would take up space, and interact with existing matter. So, souls cant be big.

If an elementary particle on the Standard Model has too little mass, it would not interact with our bodies, it would zip through us. Such as Neutrinos do. If the soul isnt able to stay in our bodies because it would fall out because we cant keep it in, then souls cant be big.

We've detected all other particles between these two scales in particle accelerators. With a high sigma rating, too. And its been repeated, verified, repeated, verified, and etc.

Ergo, no souls.

Superstition has nothing to do with scientific fact. Nor is this any example of super-naturalism.

The Universe doesnt care if you dont like it, it is the way it is whether we like it or not.

Ben
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Old 04-29-2014, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, FL
1,714 posts, read 1,920,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadwood View Post
There are no forms or matter that is one which can be conveyed as three? Either your a liar or totally deceived!

But if you listen then you might see that how the principle in which one can be three:
the answer is as simple can be, solid as ice or liquid like water & gas that evaporates into the air you breath. H2O is one that is also three.

Tell me Mr. Theoretical Physicist since you claim to be so smart,

Do these words that I speak come from my head, or from my heart?

Do you hear them with your eyes? can you see with your heart?

They come from the spirit which allows you to discern between the truth and lies.

No matter how righteous or perfect one might be, 120 years is the days of man's flesh before he dies

Search the records for oldest living man; and then maybe you will start to understand.

Male and female was man created, but the spirit lives on for a while at least,

But a liar is no better than the serpent or the beast.

Eternal energy you claim to be? What time do you have, 0' timeless one?
I never claimed to be smart. But I do have a PhD. That makes me smart at my profession, particle physics. I review papers every day from physicists all over the world and am again working at CERN starting next August. I am dumb when it comes down to some things, such as fixing a car. We all have our expertise, physics is mine.

But I digress, I cant say anything intelligent over the poem you wrote, it has no meaning, no context, and no point. It would be considered here as a waste of keystrokes. I try to participate in the topics, not be distracted by words like yours of whom the author doesnt even understand him/herself. Good luck on your visit here.
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Old 04-29-2014, 11:55 PM
 
11,227 posts, read 11,251,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110 View Post
There's a joke about that, actually. A whole bunch of people are in a waiting room after they die, and while talking amongst themselves discover that they are all atheists. They get a little bit nervous and start thinking that they might be in trouble, when God comes in and gives them a big welcome to Heaven.

One of the atheists summons up the nerve to speak. "But God, why are you letting us in? We didn't believe in you."

And God said, "That's exactly why. You didn't worry about what kind of reward you were going to get from me, or whether I would punish you. You did the right thing just because it was the right thing to do."
Speaking of jokes:

Quote:
The wolf may lie down with the lamb, but the lamb won't get much sleep. ---Woody Allen
Still wiping away the tears.

Seriously, yakfish, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. You can doubt everything in the Bible. Just don't doubt Genesis 1:1.

I believe there is sufficient evidence in the universe to prove without question there is a God; that He loves you; that He made this universe for some purpose, most likely for you to enjoy it after you die if He is a just and merciful God.

Throw everything else out---prophecy; penal atonement; mythologies in the Old Testament; blood sacrifices; original sin; talking snakes---it's all irrelevant and unnecessary man-made dogmas.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:11 AM
 
12,540 posts, read 12,516,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Speaking of jokes:

Still wiping away the tears.

Seriously, yakfish, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. You can doubt everything in the Bible. Just don't doubt Genesis 1:1.

I believe there is sufficient evidence in the universe to prove without question there is a God; that He loves you; that He made this universe for some purpose, most likely for you to enjoy it after you die if He is a just and merciful God.

Throw everything else out---prophecy; penal atonement; mythologies in the Old Testament; blood sacrifices; original sin; talking snakes---it's all irrelevant and unnecessary man-made dogmas.
OP is asking atheists and agnostics, not believers. General Religion forum is down the hall to the right.

OP, go ahead and doubt the existence of a deity, too. There are plenty of reasons to do so. I don't have time to list them all, so I'll share a couple of links here to get you started:

The Top 10 Reasons I Don't Believe in God | Alternet

Why Not Believe? Reasons Why Atheists Don't Believe in Gods

Me, personally, when I stopped to consider how huge the universe is, how miniscule humanity truly is; and then thought about evolution, genetic expression, biology, and chemistry; and then stopped to think about the human psyche and all the ways people try to cope with the unknown, the very thought of there being anything more to the equation than reconfigured stardust pushing upon and pulling away from itself seemed utterly preposterous. The bottom line is that Man made God in Man's image to try to explain that which Man has yet to figure out.

Demons? Seizures.

Pestilence? Breeding cycles.

Famine? Overpopulation.

Fire? Chemistry.

Floods? Climate.

Plague? Biology and biochemistry combined with the right, usually artificial, conditions.

Weeping statues? Oh, for crying out loud, CONDENSATION--if not medieval engineering.

Beyond that, God is a coping mechanism. The apparent futility of slogging through a life of hardship would be too much to bear for some if they accepted that once they die, *poof* they don't get anything for their troubles. Others just don't want to do the work of living, so they need a butler to call upon and do things for them, from finding their car keys to providing an employment opportunity. Others cannot make the case for doing something, so they need a higher power to demand it of them--for good or ill, from everything to keeping people in line in an orderly society to genocide. So humanity invented a supreme being, who of course is just like humanity, to provide hope, comfort, help, incentive, justification, reward, and punishment. Humanity invented God because God is useful to humanity. That's about it.
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Sarasota, FL
1,714 posts, read 1,920,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I believe there is sufficient evidence in the universe to prove without question there is a God; that He loves you; that He made this universe for some purpose, most likely for you to enjoy it after you die if He is a just and merciful God.
Excellent! Please explain your "evidence". That's right, dont just walk away from this thread without further reply, reply with the sufficient evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Throw everything else out---prophecy; penal atonement; mythologies in the Old Testament; blood sacrifices; original sin; talking snakes---it's all irrelevant and unnecessary man-made dogmas.
Ooooh, so you don't like THAT bad data, but you have your own mysterious evidence instead?

Show me the money. Prove your statements. Otherwise your essentially lying to yourself about made up evidence. There is none. There never has been. :-)
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Old 04-30-2014, 04:35 PM
 
Location: "Arlen" Texas
2,384 posts, read 1,556,049 times
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Help you to do what, to deconvert? To keep believing in something your better instincts doubt? If you're finally beginning to be honest and brave enough to face facts, good for you. It took me years to deconvert, starting when I was a teenager. It takes a while for many people because we've been told since young childhood we'll be tortured in an imaginary place forever if we don't placate an all knowing god - (who could have foretold our doubt!) lol. NOT burdening oneself with the myths, fable, and intellectual gymastics of religious belief is one of the most beautiful, brave and freeing things a human being can do for him or herself!
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Old 05-01-2014, 01:45 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,518 posts, read 2,445,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PegE View Post
Help you to do what, to deconvert? To keep believing in something your better instincts doubt? If you're finally beginning to be honest and brave enough to face facts, good for you. It took me years to deconvert, starting when I was a teenager. It takes a while for many people because we've been told since young childhood we'll be tortured in an imaginary place forever if we don't placate an all knowing god - (who could have foretold our doubt!) lol. NOT burdening oneself with the myths, fable, and intellectual gymastics of religious belief is one of the most beautiful, brave and freeing things a human being can do for him or herself!
Me thinks the OP might be looking for "proof" of some sort, and it's just not there. Being an agnostic/atheist is not the end of the world, actually it's the beginning of a whole new journey (for me it was anyway) into freedom from religiosity and all that entails.

OP, you're just finally being honest with yourself and seeing religion for what it really is, which a big load of bullhockey. It is most definitely man-made to control the masses and it has worked pretty well so far. If we're wrong about there not being a god then I feel sure that that particular deity would understand the questioning and doubt and disbelief. He/she/it has never provided evidence that it exists, not to me or anyone I know so what else do we do? We become skeptical, start questioning (especially the eternal hellfire thing) and realize that if there is a god it does not want to be known at this time or there really isn't one at all.

How we got to the point that this thing called the bible is inerrant and the word of god is beyond me, it's quite the phenomenon that's been happening for centuries. Things they are a changing and more and more people are seeing religion for what it really is.....nonsense.
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Old 05-01-2014, 02:16 PM
 
Location: "Arlen" Texas
2,384 posts, read 1,556,049 times
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For thousands of years when we consider all religions through time.
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Old 05-01-2014, 02:24 PM
 
16,083 posts, read 17,876,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakfish View Post
I was born to a Christian family and have studied the bible my whole life. After 30 years I find myself questioning everything I have believed. At this point I am only searching for truth, and if that truth turns out to be that God doesn't exist then so be it. The question I have for you in this thread is how do you atheists answer the Biblical Prophesy argument? The Idea that there are Old Testament prophecies foretelling the virgin birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus? This is one aspect I am somewhat hung up on. If this can be disproven it will discredit the whole Bible in my mind. I have lots of other random questions in my mind as well but I just want to address this one right now. I know many of you have been where I am now so I appreciate your time.
Thanks
You might look at this:
Failed biblical prophecies - RationalWiki
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Old 05-04-2014, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Dallas,Texas
1,378 posts, read 1,466,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
All that is required for morality to exist is a desire for civilization, no deity is necessary at all. I'm confident that you have the same abilities to distinguish civilized from uncivilized behavior as the rest of us, so you may indeed be a moral person without reference to any religious concerns.

Morality predates religion, it must. Without some pre-existing understandings among people regarding how they will treat one another, it would be impossible to form a collective religion, wouldn't it? Morality is forged first, later it gets assigned to the will of whatever god happens to prevail at the moment in that region.

Do you think this atheist forum is composed of outlaws and folks who spit on fairness, compassion and sacrifice?

With or without religion, we have always crafted own standards of morality, all that will change is your recognition that this is the case.

If you were to satisfy yourself that there is no deity with a moral program for us all, would you then launch a crime wave? Would you start treating everyone with contempt? Would you become insufferably selfish?

Or would you continue to behave pretty much the way you always have?
Way too much common sense in this answer. I'm so tired of the whole atheists can't have morality of any kind BS!!
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