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Old 04-27-2014, 09:02 PM
 
45 posts, read 34,716 times
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I was born to a Christian family and have studied the bible my whole life. After 30 years I find myself questioning everything I have believed. At this point I am only searching for truth, and if that truth turns out to be that God doesn't exist then so be it. The question I have for you in this thread is how do you atheists answer the Biblical Prophesy argument? The Idea that there are Old Testament prophecies foretelling the virgin birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus? This is one aspect I am somewhat hung up on. If this can be disproven it will discredit the whole Bible in my mind. I have lots of other random questions in my mind as well but I just want to address this one right now. I know many of you have been where I am now so I appreciate your time.
Thanks
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Old 04-27-2014, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Detroit
983 posts, read 1,429,169 times
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Logic. The burden of proof always lies with the person making the claim, not with someone else to disprove. An example of this would be: "Bertrand declares that a teapot is, at this very moment, in orbit around the Sun between the Earth and Mars, and that because no one can prove him wrong, his claim is therefore a valid one" (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof). This particular logical fallacy ties in very closely with religion. Many things in the Bible have been shown to be false, but what has been shown to be true? Many Christians claim that the Bible is the living word of God, but I ask for proof. Why should I believe that a book is the word of God because it says so in that very book? I can't believe that.

So, I guess my answer is that I just don't believe them. I don't see any proof besides the "because-I-said-so" argument. In summary, I don't attempt to discredit the Bible: I only ask for proof on why I should believe the Bible.
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Old 04-27-2014, 09:32 PM
 
45 posts, read 34,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC01 View Post
Logic. The burden of proof always lies with the person making the claim, not with someone else to disprove. An example of this would be: "Bertrand declares that a teapot is, at this very moment, in orbit around the Sun between the Earth and Mars, and that because no one can prove him wrong, his claim is therefore a valid one" (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof). This particular logical fallacy ties in very closely with religion. Many things in the Bible have been shown to be false, but what has been shown to be true? Many Christians claim that the Bible is the living word of God, but I ask for proof. Why should I believe that a book is the word of God because it says so in that very book? I can't believe that.

So, I guess my answer is that I just don't believe them. I don't see any proof besides the "because-I-said-so" argument. In summary, I don't attempt to discredit the Bible: I only ask for proof on why I should believe the Bible.

I can't argue with any of that logic. I have always been a skeptical person and I am starting apply that skepticism to religion as well.
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Old 04-27-2014, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Detroit
983 posts, read 1,429,169 times
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Originally Posted by yakfish View Post
I can't argue with any of that logic. I have always been a skeptical person and I am starting apply that skepticism to religion as well.
I understand that it can be difficult to apply it to religion especially if you were raised religious. I was raised Christian as well. It definitely wasn't an overnight process when I lost my faith officially last month. I had been having doubts for a while. I asked myself why I believed, and my only answer I could come up with was fear. I had been taught that doubt was wrong and that I needed to believe to be saved. I was "believing" (more like telling myself I believe even though I knew I had serious doubts) because I thought it was safer to believe and be wrong than to not believe and be wrong (Pascal's Wager). As time has gone on, I've realized that this is an incredibly flawed way of thinking because:

1) It assumes that I'd be believing in the "right" god. There are so many different religions though, so how could I be sure that I was believing in the correct one. I asked myself, "What makes this Christian god any more true than any of the other ones?" Again, where was the proof?

2) If there was a god that would send people to hell for eternity for having rational doubt, that wouldn't be a god that I would want to worship.

I just want to be a good person. I don't need religion to tell me how to be a good person. If there is a god who punishes me just because I had rational doubts, I'll be glad I didn't worship it.
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Old 04-27-2014, 09:58 PM
 
12,540 posts, read 12,527,052 times
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Ever hear of fan fiction?
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Old 04-27-2014, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Rivendell
1,387 posts, read 2,166,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakfish View Post
I was born to a Christian family and have studied the bible my whole life. After 30 years I find myself questioning everything I have believed. At this point I am only searching for truth, and if that truth turns out to be that God doesn't exist then so be it. The question I have for you in this thread is how do you atheists answer the Biblical Prophesy argument? The Idea that there are Old Testament prophecies foretelling the virgin birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus? This is one aspect I am somewhat hung up on. If this can be disproven it will discredit the whole Bible in my mind. I have lots of other random questions in my mind as well but I just want to address this one right now. I know many of you have been where I am now so I appreciate your time.
Thanks
The bible prophecies are not supported by any evidence. Some are just plain not true, like Tyre, some were written after events had already unfolded, and others were made up to fit with prophesies regarding the coming of the Jewish messiah in the Torah. Remember that Jews do not believe that Jesus is the messiah for a reason.

I hope this helps.
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Old 04-27-2014, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, FL
1,714 posts, read 1,922,550 times
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Nobody can claim the Bible is more right than my belief and teachings that the Universe is full of fire breathing dragons.

As a theoretical physicist (of which 93% of us are atheist/agnostic), the problem comes in the fact that religion is not well defined. It changes, from civilization to civilization and region to region. Why is Christianity the right faith? Why not any of the hundred others? Any time you cant attribute something to something you understand, people attribute it to "God". The more we learn the more we realize that "God" is not a good answer for questions we dont know the answer to. Humans are the way nature can be understood, and we're doing just that.

There is no life after death, I'm sad about that, truly. There's no soul, there's no field for a soul to pass through, and no energy level a soul could have otherwise we would have detected it by now.

Have faith that you can live a happy life without religion.

PS - Catholics in the Vatican have stated that Atheists and Agnostics can still go to heaven. So, even if we're wrong, we didnt burn our ticket in to have porkchops with Jesus.
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Old 04-27-2014, 11:15 PM
 
12,540 posts, read 12,527,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beninfl View Post
PS - Catholics in the Vatican have stated that Atheists and Agnostics can still go to heaven. So, even if we're wrong, we didnt burn our ticket in to have porkchops with Jesus.
There's a joke about that, actually. A whole bunch of people are in a waiting room after they die, and while talking amongst themselves discover that they are all atheists. They get a little bit nervous and start thinking that they might be in trouble, when God comes in and gives them a big welcome to Heaven.

One of the atheists summons up the nerve to speak. "But God, why are you letting us in? We didn't believe in you."

And God said, "That's exactly why. You didn't worry about what kind of reward you were going to get from me, or whether I would punish you. You did the right thing just because it was the right thing to do."
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:01 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,276,202 times
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The Biblical Prophecy argument??? Is that the one that goes something like this:

"In an earlier part of the Bible a lot of things are mentioned about what will happen later. Later in the book, those things happened."

Do you really need help figuring out the logic behind that one?
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Old 04-28-2014, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,954 posts, read 8,406,922 times
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Biblical prophecy doesn't seem compelling to me.

Predict a messiah in such a vague way that even the bible acknowledges that people of the day did not find the evidence compelling. Then fulfill that prophecy in such a way that it cannot be proven. After all, we don't know if Jesus Of Nazereth really existed.
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