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Old 05-12-2014, 04:19 AM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpc1 View Post
I think it would be fun to raise a five-year-old to believe that the family toaster is god, and just kind of see what happens.
At least the toaster is real but it is still lying. I couldn't do it. Santa Claus, god, monsters under the bed, etc, it's all from the same mold - fantasy and make-believe.
I never had children but if I did I would tell them the truth and that's all of those things do not exist.
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Old 05-13-2014, 06:20 AM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
5,846 posts, read 3,362,067 times
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You know, the toaster idea is brilliant. It would prove so many things.

Unfortunately, of course, we can't do that due to ethical concerns; that probably would be construed as child abuse.
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Old 05-13-2014, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
You know, the toaster idea is brilliant. It would prove so many things.

Unfortunately, of course, we can't do that due to ethical concerns; that probably would be construed as child abuse.
Not as bad as Baptism, god belief, or forcing children to go to church. All 3 are a form of child abuse.
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Old 05-13-2014, 02:25 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 9,361,016 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
Not as bad as Baptism, god belief, or forcing children to go to church. All 3 are a form of child abuse.
I wouldn't go that far, but it sure is a pointless exercise. Beating your kid across the head with a board qualifies more as child abuse. You can't take back the brain injury inflicted by the board, but you can always admit you were wrong to bring them up with goofy beliefs and tell them that they can walk away from those beliefs the way you did!
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Old 05-13-2014, 02:26 PM
 
40,150 posts, read 26,789,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
I never had children but if I did I would tell them the truth and that's all of those things do not exist.
The ACTUAL truth is simply that YOU do not believe any of those things exist . . . why expand beyond that as if you are some ultimate authority?
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Old 05-13-2014, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Florida
4,515 posts, read 3,924,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
Well, yes and no.

I disagree in part because atheism is a conscious rejection of a belief but children are simply ignorant of religions, gods, and all of the dogma that goes along with it.

I agree in that children do not subscribe to any particular religion, worship any particular gods, or have much of a notion about any of that since so much of it is abstract.

I do know that most American kids are exposed to religion from an early age - going to Sunday school or being made to say prayers at dinner or before going to bed, etc. To children, Jesus and God can seem very real just as Santa and the tooth fairy seem very real. This is why many atheists think it is reprehensible to indoctrinate kids into religion before they are old enough to actually think about their choices.

By the time most kids reach the age where they can understand the complicated precepts and tenets of religion, they're already so comfortable with a specific religion that they aren't even curious about other religions much less the possibility that it's all a bunch of malarchy.

Not giving a child the choice between religions - or even to be non-religious - is child abuse according to some. While I don't go quite that far, I do think it is bad parenting. Religion should be a personal decision, not a lesson in indoctrination and brainwashing.
I differ in opinion. The word 'atheism' only exists because 'theism' exists. If there was no concept of any religion then, by default, everyone would be 'atheists', but there would be no word for it. Just as everyone in the word is 'aSnarglefargy', or does not believe in the Snarglefargy.
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:56 AM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The ACTUAL truth is simply that YOU do not believe any of those things exist . . . why expand beyond that as if you are some ultimate authority?
Because it's my duty to tell the truth when anyone asks me a question, especially in this situation.

A parent is the "ultimate authority" to a child. Did I really have to post that?

Moderator cut: delete

Last edited by Miss Blue; 05-14-2014 at 09:37 AM.. Reason: off topic and bait tofor further bickering
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:05 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,288,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
Because it's my duty to tell the truth when anyone asks me a question, especially in this situation.

A parent is the "ultimate authority" to a child. Did I really have to post that?
]mod]orphaned[/mod]
The issue is that these theist types are happy to make statements of fact all the time in their life. They will tell the child that there is no santa eventually. Or that there is no monsters under the bed. Or that there is not goblins lying at the end of the garden.

They do not recognize that these are just as much statements of belief and acting like an "ultimate authority". They instead realize why they are justified in making their assertions in the face of the evidence available to them.

Saying to a child "there is no god" is no different from any of these other statements. But suddenly when you make THAT statement the religious zealots get haughty and uppity and start declaring you are turning yourself into an "ultimate authority" and expressing your "beliefs as facts" and more.

In other words, when it suits them, the game changes. The rules change. For no other reason than they WANT it to be so.

Yet not one of them, let alone on this forum, has stopped to show exactly where the difference lies. They just act like it is different because they really.... really really.... really.... want it to be so.

Last edited by Miss Blue; 05-14-2014 at 09:40 AM..
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Old 05-14-2014, 02:22 AM
 
34,437 posts, read 41,547,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John13 View Post
At least the toaster is real but it is still lying. I couldn't do it. Santa Claus, god, monsters under the bed, etc, it's all from the same mold - fantasy and make-believe.
I never had children but if I did I would tell them the truth and that's all of those things do not exist.
So if you had a child there would be no Santa,Easter Bunny or any other form of fantasy in the childs life, just the cold hard facts of life dictated to him from the adult perspective the moment he can understand speech, sounds like a draconian existence for the poor kid as i suppose you'd also dictate which books he could read and soundly admonish the kid for reading Thomas the tank engine..
I;d lighten up and let the kid find out for himself about the fantasies of life..
Make-believe play: A fantastic life skill - Canadian Living
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:51 AM
 
Location: Greenbelt, MD
8,972 posts, read 6,511,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffie View Post
I wouldn't go that far, but it sure is a pointless exercise. Beating your kid across the head with a board qualifies more as child abuse. You can't take back the brain injury inflicted by the board, but you can always admit you were wrong to bring them up with goofy beliefs and tell them that they can walk away from those beliefs the way you did!
I said a "form" of child abuse as it is preventing a child from thinking on his/her own.
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