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Old 05-30-2014, 11:33 PM
 
122 posts, read 79,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtheistAstroGuy View Post

OP – the last thing I'll add is that anyone that respects his spouses wishes, tells his child the truth when asks and finally asks other like minded people if he did the right thing is not just a good parent but a great one! The world would be much better off with people like you! Cheers.
truth relative to what ?

( hint, try not to confuse word truth with personal stuff and use the word truth, as though yuh got something .

Its not a convo about the adults truth, its a convo for it self's merit and truth, in the topic, right or not right ?

unless its a convo all about and for the adult, as mentioned earlier . Is this the point , its all about the adult, or is it all about truth ?

Last edited by Drew K; 05-30-2014 at 11:48 PM..
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Old 05-31-2014, 04:16 AM
 
Location: TX
6,491 posts, read 5,245,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtheistAstroGuy View Post
I disagree with you Vic, maybe it's just semantics, because I understand where you are coming from. I agree that science can't prove or disprove god. But that would make parents have to say “There is no scientific evidence for _______” for everything instead of saying the truth of “there is/are no ________”. I couldn't tell my kids there are no pink polka dot unicorns on the moon. There's no scientific evidence that they don't exist other than we have not observed any but that doesn't mean it's true.
Well, yeah, precisely. And should that conversation ever come up (though I don't see how it would), telling them "There's no objective evidence that there are such beings on the moon, or anywhere!" should be enough. Think of the trust this will establish; your kids will grow up knowing that you used honest language with them and, what's more, you promoted the reasoning for a lack of belief rather than handing them their opinions already made. Now, considering the rest of your post, I would say you are doing this either way so it's all good. I just don't get why an adamant "There is no god" is ever necessary. Plus I fear that it can foster a lack of tolerance of other beliefs. Once you have established in your mind that someone is wrong and not just different, how do you go about "letting it be"? Especially as we get older, we may become *that* type of old person, who can't resist the urge to give a sermon! Idk, something to think about.

Again, that's if you were ever put in the position to discuss pink polka dotted unicorns on the moon

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtheistAstroGuy View Post
For me it does come down to semantics. But words mean a great deal and change an entire meaning by using a synonym. For example, I use the term atheist to describe myself, but I like to caveat it with the fact that for me it means I'm 99.9+% sure there is no god. I don't like using the term agnostic, even though it would be correct, but using it tends to indicate a neutral feeling about the existence of god...as if I just don't know if there is a god or no; when I have very strong feelings on the matter.
To me, "agnostic" is like... "honest". No one knows, so if someone denied being agnostic, I wouldn't consider them being honest with themselves or me. I call myself an atheist because I have a lack of belief in a god. And I'm always willing and ready to explain to Christians and other theists that it does not necessarily mean anything more.
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Old 05-31-2014, 04:44 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
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If I were an atheist (I happen to be an anti-religion agnostic) I think I'd have said, I don't believe that god exists. Some day you're going to have to decide for yourself.
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Old 05-31-2014, 06:37 AM
 
3,404 posts, read 2,253,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew K View Post
could it be agreed above , has nothing to do with the topic in the talked about conversation ? ( or substantiated if otherwise ?

Iow, what has Harry Potter or any analogy got to do with the talked about conversation in OP ?

Is there a common ground deal with Harry Potter and god in the minds of youngsters, I don't get the approach at all,
They have the same amount of evidence supporting their existence as anything other than a fictional character. Whatever answer you believe he should have given about God must therefore be essentially the same answer he should give if asked about Harry Potter's existence. If telling a child that there is no reason to believe a god exists is selfishly complaining about the world, then so to would be telling them that Harry Potter isn't a real person, and that there isn't really a Hogwarts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew K View Post
again,

saying yuh think there is no god to a little kid, is complaining about the world -to a little kid.

( hint ...the why word. ( why wouldn't there be ?
I would actually think that claiming there is a god is a much stronger complaint about reality than the converse. You are telling your child that, regardless of the evidence, you are so dissatisfied with reality that you must cling to something with no evidence, a fiction, to give your life meaning, hope, and dignity. That seems like a real complaint against reality.

But, that aside, you still have not even attempted to connect the dots on your claim that explaining that a belief in God is unfounded is somehow complaining about the world...

-NoCapo
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Old 05-31-2014, 07:07 AM
 
39,217 posts, read 10,895,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew K View Post
truth relative to what ?

( hint, try not to confuse word truth with personal stuff and use the word truth, as though yuh got something .

Its not a convo about the adults truth, its a convo for it self's merit and truth, in the topic, right or not right ?

unless its a convo all about and for the adult, as mentioned earlier . Is this the point , its all about the adult, or is it all about truth ?
Truth relative to what on the best evidence we can conclude about the god - question and the reality of existence.

The parameters have been done to death. Quite apart from religion, because they all seem to disagree about which god we are talking about, the presence of a god here with us seems unsupported by the facts. Efforts to ascribe this lucky or unlucky occurrence to the hand of god don't reasonably stand up and smack of self -ceceptyion and wishful thinking. Note Ray Comfort's asinine and reprehensibly opportunistic explanation of the Philippines storm and flood as sonething God had done to let us know he was around.

The evidence (argued at length here on the boards) does not support the existence of a god, no matter how the believers may wriggle, excuse and deny.

If logic and evidence counts for anything there is very good reason to suppose there is no god in the way we use the term in the normal way.

So if and when a kid of five or six asks whether there is a god or not, 'No' is as justified to the same question about fairies or leprechauns. That we don't have a self -serving organization dedicated to propping up belief in fairies or leprechauns is irrelevant.

I would prefer to assume the kid is smart enough to understand the reservation of 'I don't see any good reason to believe in a god', but 'No' will do fine.
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Old 05-31-2014, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,097,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
But, that aside, you still have not even attempted to connect the dots on your claim that explaining that a belief in God is unfounded is somehow complaining about the world...
There are always some atheists-in-the-making by way of deconversion who are still adjusting to the absence of the faux comfort of faith, who can be rather whiny. This is because it takes awhile for it to fully sink in that your existence is not all (or even at all) about you. Theism is extremely self-absorbed and narcissistic in its very nature. But eventually one gets over oneself and one's illusions. Or at least usually. I suppose there are always some unbelievers who never really let go and wish they could still believe.

From the side of faith-belief, though, where the attitude still prevails that you are a member of an elite group within an elite and entitled species, with god himself as captain of the ship, it's hard to imagine that atheism could be anything but a bitter wasteland of disappointment and loss and complaining. It's a little like how they can't possibly understand how atheism is not "just another form of faith"; faith is all they know.
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Old 05-31-2014, 09:00 AM
 
122 posts, read 79,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
They have the same amount of evidence supporting their existence as anything other than a fictional character. Whatever answer you believe he should have given about God must therefore be essentially the same answer he should give if asked about Harry Potter's existence. If telling a child that there is no reason to believe a god exists is selfishly complaining about the world, then so to would be telling them that Harry Potter isn't a real person, and that there isn't really a Hogwarts...


I would actually think that claiming there is a god is a much stronger complaint about reality than the converse. You are telling your child that, regardless of the evidence, you are so dissatisfied with reality that you must cling to something with no evidence, a fiction, to give your life meaning, hope, and dignity. That seems like a real complaint against reality.

But, that aside, you still have not even attempted to connect the dots on your claim that explaining that a belief in God is unfounded is somehow complaining about the world...

-NoCapo
What a gorgeous day.

Above is going into a conversation with an adult correspondent about the subject. A presentation setting up an explanation for the complaint there is no god, or however certain it is put forward.

Once the view is understood by the youngster, immediately the question would be why, spoken or not
-why wouldn't there be a god?

Regarding balance of above, the kid knows and accepts what life is, the dog pass's on, relatives people in the community, TV.

The certainty is extreme spoken to a kid, interfering with the fundamental human question why.....and in this one , why wouldn't there be a god.

As far as character goes, it is another conversation. Fictional matters as well, a kid watchs TV and knows the ice cream on the screen along with Harry Potter is decidedly with nothing but evidence, make believe. Gotta get outside and do a few things .

Last edited by Drew K; 05-31-2014 at 09:29 AM..
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Old 05-31-2014, 12:31 PM
 
40,141 posts, read 26,779,715 times
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Default Today I told my 5 year old son that God doesn't exist...

::Sigh:: There is every reason to doubt the myriad attributes that we humans have given to God throughout our history . . . many if not most exceed reason and reflect more about human hubris than anything else . . . like the Omni's. But . . . none of this has anything to do with the fundamental question of the existence of God.
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Old 05-31-2014, 01:39 PM
 
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That is a good point. 'Which God?' is a relevant question. though the 5 year old kid would probably not be aware that there are other gods of other religions.

So we are talking about the One god that there is. And the fundamental question of the existence of that god, as it had been presented to the kid as an invisible being 'up there', who is looking after us, gets back to the same response.

'I see no reason to believe in on', or simplified so that the kid can understand it, 'No'.
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Old 05-31-2014, 02:58 PM
 
122 posts, read 79,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
::Sigh:: There is every reason to doubt the myriad attributes that we humans have given to God throughout our history . . . many if not most exceed reason and reflect more about human hubris than anything else . . . like the Omni's. But . . . none of this has anything to do with the fundamental question of the existence of God.
Misrepresentation :


The myriad attributes given to God by man throughout history all have a definition of God which is constructive to the well being of humanity - not destructive.

if they all exceed reason, I guess the common ground attribute amongst all given to god exceeds reason as well.

this has nothing to do with a conversation with a kid unless my point above comes to surface in principal , not above, because it is honest, constructive , true , avoids infraction misrepresentation and complaining to a little kid about the world.
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