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Old 06-01-2014, 04:55 PM
 
40,168 posts, read 26,797,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
Not around fundamentalists much?
I realize that I grew up in a fundamentalist bubble, but most of my friends grew up similarly. When I compare the amount of indoctrination I received, with the simple "No" that we are discussing in this thread, the claims of abusing authority and indoctrination are just laughable!
-NoCapo
I couldn't agree more, NoCapo. Religion in the hands of humanity can be a dangerous and destructive thing . . . especially around very young and impressionable children (and some adults). Fanaticism is evil and has no upside. It fosters the worst in human nature under the pretext of righteousness. Belief in a loving God, however . . . does have many upsides and should not be dismissed willy nilly.
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Old 06-01-2014, 06:48 PM
 
3,404 posts, read 2,254,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I couldn't agree more, NoCapo. Religion in the hands of humanity can be a dangerous and destructive thing . . . especially around very young and impressionable children (and some adults). Fanaticism is evil and has no upside. It fosters the worst in human nature under the pretext of righteousness. Belief in a loving God, however . . . does have many upsides and should not be dismissed willy nilly.
In a way I kind of agree, funny enough. I liken it to the idea that any kid can be president. We tell our children, "You can be anything you want!" to encourage them to dream big, and to take risks, but ultimately that isn't true. No matter how much I wanted it, I was never going to be the starring scorer for the Chicago Bulls, or be the next Einstein. These are white lies, fibs we tell to instil confidence and hope in our children.

In the same way, the idea of a loving God may be useful for some people, it may help them be more confident, loving people. That has no bearing on the truth of the idea, and just as a child who honestly believes he will play in the NFL, but doesn't get a college scholarship can be desperately hurt and disillusioned, so to can people who are fed the idea of a loving God, only to feel left abandoned and alone when it counts. Sometimes honesty, the unvarnished truth, told with tact and compassion is the best thing...

-NoCapo
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Old 06-01-2014, 07:42 PM
 
122 posts, read 79,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoCapo View Post
Not around fundamentalists much? I had enough knowledge about Christianity and the Bible at 4 to make a profession of faith that Jesus was God and that I wanted Him to save me from my sins so I could go to heaven. Before I was 2, I was learning Bible stories and my parents were teaching me how to pronounce names like Hepzibah and Mephibosheth. By the time I was a mature 7, I was concerned that I did not understand theology well enough at 4 to really mean it when I prayed the Sinners Prayer, so I rededicated my life to Christ. I was memorizing entire chapters of the Bible at that point. We were in church 5 times a week, and had family bible study most evenings.

I realize that I grew up in a fundamentalist bubble, but most of my friends grew up similarly. When I compare the amount of indoctrination I received, with the simple "No" that we are discussing in this thread, the claims of abusing authority and indoctrination are just laughable!


-NoCapo
I have a good memory as well. But the family and parents didn't get into drilling things, were brought up by and were professionals. We were all dressed up and dragged off to church, but no drilling.

I clearly remember sitting in church before school and hearing about people getting their hand cut off and so on, and knew without a doubt it was a story relative to a time to teach a suggestion. Everything else as well so did not pay attention in church , got the basic deal and that was that. I didn't need to be marketed , all the families in the neighborhood and relatives were the same. For example we had many kids so were the family most visited by all the many relatives.. Not Once...in all those social gatherings was rel or spirituality even spoken of as a word, not once. Including all social things , and that is allot with a big crowd.

My father said once or twice something similar to, what do you guys think happens when you are dead? referring to experience, to myself and brother while waiting in the car for something.. that's it...and just listened to what we had to say, there are extremist's in everything. People have things to do. Ive seen lots of things which sound good for the talked about topic that don't come off the same ( No will do ) from an atheist perspective, and everybody is different. Can't think of cause I'm in a huge rush.

Last edited by Drew K; 06-01-2014 at 08:11 PM..
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Old 06-02-2014, 01:24 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,289,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
"Parent first" says it all. If I see a real reason to make an exception to any given rule, I will of course make it for my child.
Seemingly even if that "reason" is arbitrary, contrived, and empty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
Tell me, why should I go about telling him there is no god
Already did. Re-read my posts please. Actually read them this time.
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Old 06-02-2014, 01:28 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,289,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtheistAstroGuy View Post
I disagree that most atheists believe life is a meaningless struggle...and believe that you are making assumptions based on some of our claims.
If you think.... or you think that the majority of atheists think..... that there is some kind of objective meaning to our "struggle" then I am all ears to hear your substantiation for this. Until that time however the one pedaling assumptions here is you, not me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtheistAstroGuy View Post
However, life is not meaningless. I want the same things most Christians want
That you have wants and desires does not mean life is not meaningless. That we can find and ascribe our OWN meaning to our lives does not change the fact that that life is seemingly objectively meaningless in and of itself.

You are mistakenly conflating your ability to subjectively find goals and meanings in life.... with life actually having that attribute of meaning. They are different things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtheistAstroGuy View Post
There is no contradiction with finding love happiness or a meaning in life as an atheist.
Again no, but actually thinking that this means life HAS meaning is the error you seem to make.
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:04 PM
 
122 posts, read 79,845 times
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above described existential-nihilistic world view -holds no objective meaning to reason.

so the view overthrows an answer to its own question before any answer can even be considered. The existential-nihilistic world view is a confusion. Plus it concedes to a place , for meaning by its comprehension of a potential for meaning other then desire, and all that..

so the position already knows and identifies an objective meaning, admits and deny's. Its just a confusion probably from thinking about it too much .

( edit last night I was in rush due to things not in my control and want to say in general because some of the theists read this as well, the discussion re church was also in attention to rules for this area of forum, thanks. )

Last edited by Drew K; 06-02-2014 at 01:17 PM..
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Old 06-02-2014, 02:29 PM
 
39,240 posts, read 10,913,531 times
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I didn't understand much of that, but I grasped at least an uncharitable and slanderous misrepresentation of the atheist mindset which gives you a cue for bashing it. Thanks for your even -handed and fair - minded assessment of all us atheists.
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Old 06-02-2014, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Downtown Raleigh
1,650 posts, read 3,012,743 times
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In Living Color Up For Parole www keepvid com - YouTube
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Old 06-02-2014, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ/Amagansett, NY
11,028 posts, read 10,221,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I didn't understand much of that, but I grasped at least an uncharitable and slanderous misrepresentation of the atheist mindset which gives you a cue for bashing it. Thanks for your even -handed and fair - minded assessment of all us atheists.
It brings me back to grade school, trying to read Shakespeare. Each sentence required 3 reads to decode it. But at least Shakespeare sounded pleasant when read aloud.
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Old 06-02-2014, 03:51 PM
Status: "Watching America made small." (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
25,900 posts, read 13,463,542 times
Reputation: 11706
Drew K is the latest nom de plume of the poster previously known as stargazzer, macpherson and a few others I've forgotten.
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