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Old 06-20-2014, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,690 posts, read 89,269,992 times
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I've been killed by spontaneously materializing polka-dotted Volkswagens falling on my head a few times now. After a while you get used to it.
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Old 06-20-2014, 01:46 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,286,683 times
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I would get that looked at if I were you. There is likely an ointment you can get.
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Old 06-20-2014, 07:04 AM
 
5,462 posts, read 5,942,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0 View Post
Rest assured, I'll flat-out hand "There's not gonna be any objective evidence one way or the other" to him from the get-go.
But this is just as much of an unproven belief on your part as "god doesn't exist" is from the other direction. You can't know this for sure, it is just a tentative conclusion based on things as they stand now - just like saying "god isn't real". Why is one OK but the other isn't?
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Old 06-20-2014, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Dallas
242 posts, read 197,274 times
Reputation: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
I've been killed by spontaneously materializing polka-dotted Volkswagens falling on my head a few times now. After a while you get used to it.
OMG ...they killed Drover! ...you b*st*rds!!!
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,842 posts, read 19,937,680 times
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Did I miss this somewhere along the way?
To those that insist that an outright "No, there is no god" is not the answer that should be given, are you saying that the answer to "Is there a monster under the bed?" should be , "I don't know, but I don't think so."
Looking under the bed will not prove there is no monster under there, of course, since monsters could have all sorts of powers including invisibilty (You know, like god)
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:53 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,286,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
Did I miss this somewhere along the way?
The whole last few pages it seems

Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
To those that insist that an outright "No, there is no god" is not the answer that should be given, are you saying that the answer to "Is there a monster under the bed?" should be , "I don't know, but I don't think so."
There is one person arguing that while the statements are identical objectively in every way..... that one of them is in fact good parenting while the other is not.

In this persons view telling a kid "there is no god" is indoctrination and actively closing down the childs ability to find out the truth for themselves in life. But while saying "there is no monsters" is every bit as much the exact same thing in terms of indoctrination and the stymieing of critical thought..... this is ok if you subjectively decide that it is good parenting in this case to do so.

To me: Arbitrary, subjective and contrived..... all likely with a heavy influence of religious societal indoctrination even on vulnerable atheists minds.
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,842 posts, read 19,937,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
The whole last few pages it seems
.

To me: Arbitrary, subjective and contrived..... all likely with a heavy influence of religious societal indoctrination even on vulnerable atheists minds.

I was only really trying to point that out clearly(to myself) since I didn't think this could go on so long unless I missed something along the way
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:27 AM
 
34,434 posts, read 41,537,489 times
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I think there are some things in life that you just learn for yourself as you get older and gain more wisdom or knowledge, things like God,Santa,Easter bunny,Halloween. I dont see the point in telling a 5 year old that all the fairy tales and characters that are a part of a 5 year olds life are all lies fakes,not to be believed, he'll figure it out all by himself.
If the kid is watching a kids show like Thomas the tank engine do you enter the room and loudly proclaim its all lies, Thomas isnt real,he's fake. Or any book your kid reads does it have to pass your inspection and be followed by a lengthy lecture on what is true or what is false or real or imagined?
If you are bringing your kid up right have some faith in the education he is receiving and have some faith in his judgement.
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:47 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,286,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
If the kid is watching a kids show like Thomas the tank engine do you enter the room and loudly proclaim its all lies, Thomas isnt real,he's fake.
No because there is no need to. Kids know this already. They know the difference between fantasy and reality. They heavily indulge in both but they know where the differences lie.

Where the analogy fails is that many parents actively do go telling children that santa and god are real. This is not indulging their fantasy. This is actively lying to them.

You do not have to have a "lengthy lecture on what is true or what is false or real or imagined" with children. For the most part they know this already. They also actively look to us as sources of knowledge and truth too. It is us adults, not children, that blur the lines between them.
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Old 06-20-2014, 06:26 PM
 
Location: TX
6,491 posts, read 5,245,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
Then how fortunate it must be to your peace of mind to notice I never said any such thing.
Then why on earth are we still going back and forth? If we both agree that neither "There is no god" nor "There are no monsters under your bed" have evidence to support them, but they differ in their usefulness, that's good enough for me. You understand why I would tell my son one but not the other, even if you would not do the same. Great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
And again the idea it is "Honorable" is just your subjective parenting choice. Looked at another way.... your way.... it is ALSO "an attempt to close the doors to alternative views for your child (aka indoctrination).". That is: The alternative view that there might actually be monsters under the bed.

But using subjective, arbitrary, and contrived reasoning you simply ignore the conditions you apply in one context in the second context, and justify this to yourself by elevating... in your own mind.... the honorability and loftiness of your perceived goals when doing so.
So now we're going to argue over whether it's honorable to try and ensure your kid gets a good night's rest

And where was that purpose of telling them "There is no god" I asked for, quite a while back, hmmmmm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
But this is just as much of an unproven belief on your part as "god doesn't exist" is from the other direction. You can't know this for sure, it is just a tentative conclusion based on things as they stand now - just like saying "god isn't real". Why is one OK but the other isn't?
Right you are! This is why I started with saying something to the effect of "Never say never, but I hope to never tell my son there is no god", because even I've slipped up and illustrated just how easy it is to lead your child by the nose into your own personal beliefs, stepping on their own ability to choose for themselves. Good eye, KC
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