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Old 05-14-2014, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,574 posts, read 21,726,369 times
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In my case it is not a matter of being smart..It is a matter of humbleness in my life long belief that a creator/God has to exist because I don't think the beginning just happened out of nowhere, out of nothing. And to my mind it has not been proven yes or no and I don't think it ever will because the question "how?" will always remain ...unanswered.. so, I can't see the reason to argue my side.

It is also what brings me peace at the end of the day.

I don't ask anyone follow what I believe and no one can convince me to follow their Church belief or their arguments for their non beliefs..Been there, not going back.

Religion, no religion both personal choices based on a persons upbringing, culture and life experiences, and in some cases their education.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
16,292 posts, read 7,664,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Blue View Post
In my case it is not a matter of being smart..It is a matter of humbleness in my life long belief that a creator/God has to exist because I don't think the beginning just happened out of nowhere, out of nothing. And to my mind it has not been proven yes or no and I don't think it ever will because the question "how?" will always remain ...unanswered.. so, I can't see the reason to argue my side.

It is also what brings me peace at the end of the day.

I don't ask anyone follow what I believe and no one can convince me to follow their Church belief or their arguments for their non beliefs..Been there, not going back.

Religion, no religion both personal choices based on a persons upbringing, culture and life experiences, and in some cases their education.
So..... the real question is whether the person is smart enough to derive a sense of value in their life?
 
Old 05-14-2014, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Not.here
2,828 posts, read 3,609,027 times
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Everyone starts from the same point, doubt. The believers however choose to take the position that they believe in God. They do this for any number of reasons. It may be that they want to conform to the thinking of a group, or maybe that they find greater inner peace in the thought of a holy father figure that will always be there for them... whatever.... they have their reasons. As this sense of belief increases, their sense of doubt becomes further and further suppressed into the depths of the mind until it is replaced by faith. When they have reached this point, all doubt seems to have disappeared and has been replaced by a new inner-found faith.

Non-believers also starts from the position of doubt. However, they do not take any fixed position on the existence of God initially. Instead, they question and question and question some more. After a period of time has passed and no satisfactory answers have arrived, they begin to form a conclusion. And then it is just a brief matter of time until they declare that there is no God. From then on out, there is no reason to question anymore.
 
Old 05-14-2014, 01:52 PM
 
561 posts, read 1,034,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
Humanity as a collective culture truly has a horrific inferiority complex. We're either surrendering our lives to supernatural deities because they're so much better than we are - or we're taking the philosophical route to self-hatred by demeaning our intelligence and IQs.
Hmm... That's a much more existential explanation than the way I think about it.

I think neuroscience can offer a partial answer rooted in the general neuro-physiology of the brain. Only about 12-15% of the human brain seems to directly control consciousness (subjective experience). Much of the remaining 85% or so seems to significantly influence our subjective perceptions, but we have absolutely no control over these components of our mind.

So from a behavioral science/neuroscience perspective we don't so much decide what we believe, but rather arrive at our beliefs. Those of us who are aware of how the mind seems to work might have an inkling more self-control and awareness, but probably not much. Ultimately, as individuals we don't have nearly as much direct control of what we perceive and believe as our ego likes us to think we do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
No explanation = "We don't know." The very existence of existence and the universe (or multi-verses) is of Godly proportions relative to us puny beings and our finite lives. So we do NOT know whether or not that constiutes a God.
The problem is that 'god' is an intangible concept and a completely arbitrary term. It could well be that flirb is the omnipotent being that created the universe, and that the universe/multi-verses is of flirb-like proportions.

What is flirb? As far as I know, it's a word I made up. Isn't that what god is? Just a word someone made up a long time ago?
 
Old 05-14-2014, 05:16 PM
 
Location: "Arlen" Texas
2,384 posts, read 1,559,302 times
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Why DON'T you think you're smart enough??

I'll bet whoever posted this thread is smart enough to know you DON'T stone people, slaughter the people in the next village, etc. Most people ARE smarter than the crap that religions propagate! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know better than the nonsense that's out there.
 
Old 05-14-2014, 09:16 PM
 
40,099 posts, read 26,761,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
No explanation = "We don't know." The very existence of existence and the universe (or multi-verses) is of Godly proportions relative to us puny beings and our finite lives. So we do NOT know whether or not that constiutes a God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apathizer View Post
The problem is that 'god' is an intangible concept and a completely arbitrary term. It could well be that flirb is the omnipotent being that created the universe, and that the universe/multi-verses is of flirb-like proportions.
What is flirb? As far as I know, it's a word I made up. Isn't that what god is? Just a word someone made up a long time ago?
Pretending ignorance about what God represents is a silly game. Being responsible for everything that exists including us with our consciousness and abilities to question what it is all about . . . is certainly a characteristic of the caliber one would typically associate with God. Why the semantic foolishness? You knew what I meant. Your "flirb" nonsense notwithstanding.
 
Old 05-14-2014, 10:40 PM
 
561 posts, read 1,034,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Pretending ignorance about what God represents is a silly game. Being responsible for everything that exists including us with our consciousness and abilities to question what it is all about . . . is certainly a characteristic of the caliber one would typically associate with God. Why the semantic foolishness? You knew what I meant. Your "flirb" nonsense notwithstanding.
No, my point is that 'god' is an arbitrary term for the deity described in most Western religions. Virtually any other made-up word could be substituted for it, and it wouldn't make any practical difference one way of the other:

'In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.'

In the beginning Flirb created the heaven and the earth.'

For someone unfamiliar with the term 'god', is either of those statements more meaningful and significant than the other? For those unfamiliar with scripture, both are completely arbitrary and meaningless.
 
Old 05-14-2014, 10:50 PM
 
40,099 posts, read 26,761,498 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Pretending ignorance about what God represents is a silly game. Being responsible for everything that exists including us with our consciousness and abilities to question what it is all about . . . is certainly a characteristic of the caliber one would typically associate with God. Why the semantic foolishness? You knew what I meant. Your "flirb" nonsense notwithstanding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apathizer View Post
No, my point is that 'god' is an arbitrary term for the deity described in most Western religions. Virtually any other made-up word could be substituted for it, and it wouldn't make any practical difference one way of the other:
'In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.'
In the beginning Flirb created the heaven and the earth.'
For someone unfamiliar with the term 'god', is either of those statements more meaningful and significant than the other? For those unfamiliar with scripture, both are completely arbitrary and meaningless.
The rather simplistic point that seems to elude you (or you pretend it does) is that God is that which is responsible for everything that exists. It is not a difficult concept and one that has a long history within humankind . . . your flirb and pretended obtuseness notwithstanding.
 
Old 05-15-2014, 12:46 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,283,771 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnieBean View Post
I don't think humans are smart enough to have it all figured out so I don't understand how anyone can say with conviction that they are a believer or an atheist.
It is not about how smart or dumb we are.

It is about coming to a conclusion based on the evidence, arguments, data and reasoning we have available to us at the time.

And regardless of how dumb or intelligent I may be, the simple fact is that I have never, once, ever, been shown even the first shred of a modicum of an iota of argument, evidence, data or reasoning that lends any credence whatsoever to the assertion that a god exists.

Simples.
 
Old 05-15-2014, 12:47 AM
 
561 posts, read 1,034,145 times
Reputation: 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The rather simplistic point that seems to elude you (or you pretend it does) is that God is that which is responsible for everything that exists. It is not a difficult concept and one that has a long history within humankind . . . your flirb and pretended obtuseness notwithstanding.
Humans are probably incapable of understanding "that which is responsible for everything that exists". The reasons for this are somewhat complicated, involving neuroscience, epistemology, and psychology, so please bare with me:

As humans, we are physical beings composed of matter and energy that exist in space and time. Consequently, everything we are capable of perceiving is limited to others things composed of matter and energy that also exist in space in time. If something somehow transcends or exits outside of the space/time continuum, we are incapable of perceiving or even imagining such a thing.

Because of these limitations, humans are probably incapable of understanding true nothingness because no human has ever experienced nothingness; every human that has ever lived and ever will live co-exists with other physical things. Since we can't understand the fundamental origin of existence itself, how can we possibly understand "that which is responsible for everything that exists"? We simply can't, and rather than accept this fundamental, epistemological limitation of human perception, arbitrary deities were fabricated as an explanation. 'God' simply happens to be the name in most Western religions.

So ultimately my point is that 'god' (or any other deity) seems to be a way of denying the epistemological limits of human perception. As such, 'god' is a completely useless, meaningless, and arbitrary term.
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