Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So my roommate and her boyfriend went to see this movie (God Is Not Dead - google it) because they were curious about it - she's atheist and he's Jewish and keeps kinda kosher. They tend to step outside their comfort zones a lot, just to explore.
Basically, it was a movie with bad acting and a ridiculous premise. I know of no college campus that would permit a professor to require students to sign a disavowal of their religion (the movie's opening gambit). It's just not possible in any accredited institution of higher learning, no matter how secular and no matter how persecuted some hardcore Christians like to think they are. Oh, and all the atheists in the movie are narcissistic, miserable jackasses.
Well, my roommate and her boyfriend were just slack-jawed at the awfulness that was this movie - hateful, poorly done, sanctimonious, melodramatic and utterly improbable. They were kinda puzzled, kinda amused, kinda stunned.
Then the movie ended and people around them stood up and started applauding and yelling. My roommate went into the bathroom, and found herself surrounded by sobbing women, who were apparently so moved by the film that they had to go to the restroom to compose themselves.
So here's my question: Are these people mentally ill? It just seems utterly bizarre to me that such a piece of hateful and amateurish propaganda would evoke that kind of reaction, but then I remember reading about the propaganda machine of Nazi Germany and how utterly cheesy it was, and I guess yes, that makes sense.
I guess really what it did was make the believers in the audience feel special, which is really what propaganda is all about. But those reactions just seem like mental instability to me. I have a lot of people of faith in my life, some of whom I consider to be my role models, and none of them would have had this reaction. Or at least I'd like to think so. This was like Westboro Baptist-level crazy, imho.
But my roommate gave me a full report, and then I researched the plot and premise of the movie, and all I can think is that if I saw something that reversed the roles (Atheists uniformly good/Christians uniformly evil), I would be offended at such sweeping stereotypes just out of principle, as I would by any stereotypes.
I guess my main takeaway is that I need to be more casually open about my atheism - normally I wouldn't find my (lack of) religious beliefs to be a topic to bandy about, but if this is really a widespread attitude, I guess I need to be more open. I guess I've been naive - my atheism has caused waves among my family back in Jersey, but nothing too dramatic (lol, see my post about accidentally outing myself to an 80-something family friend).
And I HAVE read so many painful posts from other atheists who have had such awful experiences with family and friends, but I guess I just didn't expect there to be such a reaction of that nature in a mainstream theater in a major metropolitan area.
06-16-2014, 08:42 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JrzDefector
Then the movie ended and people around them stood up and started applauding and yelling. My roommate went into the bathroom, and found herself surrounded by sobbing women, who were apparently so moved by the film that they had to go to the restroom to compose themselves.
So here's my question: Are these people mentally ill? It just seems utterly bizarre to me that such a piece of hateful and amateurish propaganda would evoke that kind of reaction, but then I remember reading about the propaganda machine of Nazi Germany and how utterly cheesy it was, and I guess yes, that makes sense.
The short answer is yes!
Many of these believers have been so brainwashed into thinking that there is a Devilish conspiracy to rob the world of the truth of God and destoyed their lives that they feel like kids who are bullied. The movie is the catharsis of all that frustration and angst towards those nasty atheist - tools of the devil. It is what they wish they could say - it is a sort of kick-the-atheist-to-the-curb reaction. 'Shut up Atheist you got nothing - GOD IS NOT DEAD!'
Christian now breaking down in tears and emotional release from the emimies attacks - THANK GOD MOVIE for putting my bully in his place.
I think we need to be careful tossing around terms like "mentally ill". Mental illness is not needed to explain this behavior, only crowd dynamics, narcissistic ideations, and perhaps mild paranoia and neurosis. Particularly in herds, people can behave plenty strangely with nothing more behind it than their ego investment in their ideas needed to explain it. In fact, there's a thread in R&S where someone is suggesting that Benny Hinn's ability to cause people to be "slain in the spirit" en masse by simply raising his hands is somehow a sign of supernatural powers at work. This was answered by an old kinescope from the early 1960's showing the bizarre behavior of Beatles fans. This shows that you don't even really need ego investment as such, you just need wishful thinking.
People in groups are "Stoopider" than people individually. The group simply amplifies the flaws in the individual's thinking.
The progression is something like this.
Assume you're a Christian and you go to see this movie. At some level you are already bothered by the very notion that people can seriously not believe in what you so earnestly believe in. The movie reinforces the notion that such people are fools, boors, or worse, and that people like you are virtuous. You pick up on the "vibe" around you which is mostly the emotional reaction of people just like you. It reinforces your conviction that you are right and that these atheists are horrible. Others are cheered by the victory of the believers over the atheists. You're caught up in the cheering and the emotion of the moment. You have an emotional release because you're relieved at the subjective feeling of validation and justification for your beliefs about the Other. In fact, it moves you to tears because you don't often feel so part of something seemingly Important.
See? Mental illness not required -- unless by "mental illness" you just mean "being human".
I think we need to be careful tossing around terms like "mentally ill". Mental illness is not needed to explain this behavior, only crowd dynamics, narcissistic ideations, and perhaps mild paranoia and neurosis. Particularly in herds, people can behave plenty strangely with nothing more behind it than their ego investment in their ideas needed to explain it. In fact, there's a thread in R&S where someone is suggesting that Benny Hinn's ability to cause people to be "slain in the spirit" en masse by simply raising his hands is somehow a sign of supernatural powers at work. This was answered by an old kinescope from the early 1960's showing the bizarre behavior of Beatles fans. This shows that you don't even really need ego investment as such, you just need wishful thinking.
People in groups are "Stoopider" than people individually. The group simply amplifies the flaws in the individual's thinking.
The progression is something like this.
Assume you're a Christian and you go to see this movie. At some level you are already bothered by the very notion that people can seriously not believe in what you so earnestly believe in. The movie reinforces the notion that such people are fools, boors, or worse, and that people like you are virtuous. You pick up on the "vibe" around you which is mostly the emotional reaction of people just like you. It reinforces your conviction that you are right and that these atheists are horrible. Others are cheered by the victory of the believers over the atheists. You're caught up in the cheering and the emotion of the moment. You have an emotional release because you're relieved at the subjective feeling of validation and justification for your beliefs about the Other. In fact, it moves you to tears because you don't often feel so part of something seemingly Important.
See? Mental illness not required -- unless by "mental illness" you just mean "being human".
I have an ingrained suspicion of getting caught up in group feelings. As soon as I see myself agreeing unquestioningly with people around me, I break out in hives.
Kidding. Kind of. But I do get twitchy even joining a softball league.
Yes, I see what you're saying. It was just so... Hitler Youth.
I have an ingrained suspicion of getting caught up in group feelings. As soon as I see myself agreeing unquestioningly with people around me, I break out in hives.
Kidding. Kind of. But I do get twitchy even joining a softball league.
Yes, I see what you're saying. It was just so... Hitler Youth.
I am the same way. Even when I was a Christian I once went to a Charles & Frances Hunter crusade where they invited everyone to come up front to be "slain in the spirit". I went up just for the heck of it as I was curious about how it worked. Frances put her hand on my forehead and gave me a little shove. Nothing happened. She shoved harder. I just stood there. She shrugged and moved on. As far as I know, I was the only one who wasn't "slain" that day. Quite probably because I was the only one who "went forward" to observe and learn rather than to join the group swoon.
This is what kept me out of the charismatic movement when I was a Christian and it's probably what contributed to me leaving the church altogether. I just am not wired for group hugs or group foaming at the mouth or pretty much group anything.
More than once theists have opined in these forums that if anyone would just really submit to studying the Bible, praying, seeking god, really WANT it and INVITE it, it would come. And they have a point. If you surrender to an idea actively and consistently, eventually you'll have some sort of "hairs standing up on the back of your neck" type of experience and if you have a strong enough desire for that to "validate" whatever idea you are pursuing, it will do so. If you really like to run in packs, so much the better, that will also make you feel your ideations are validated, via argumentum ad populum.
I kind of liked the movie. Had some over the top parts (but no worse than the 25mn plus battle scenes in any Lord of the Rings or latest Superman movie, or any of the now obligatory gay "coming out" scenes in pretty much every feature film from Hollywood), and it was a somewhat simplistic and narrow presentation of christian theology, but my values were not assaulted, my political leanings were not insulted, and a belief in God was not mocked, but held out as a decent thing, with value for the believer.
I did not feel the need to cry in the restroom, or text message, etc. after the movie was over. It was a grade B movie that was a decent, but a somewhat weak profesional effort at christian entertainment - and yes, the acting was "OK," but could have been better.
On people standing up and applauding, well, see my first pargraph. When your only option for professional quality movies comes complete with either a total or hidden assault on your value system, religious beliefs, etc. etc., it is such an unusual experience to not have that happen at a movie, that that fact alone is as much the cause of the applause as anything else.
I don't believe the fact that I enjoyed the movie makes me mentally ill or unstable.
06-17-2014, 07:46 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ll0OoO0ll
ha!
The OP reminds of Friedrich Nietzsche.
He said, "God is dead".
Look at his grave. God is alive but it's Nietzsche who is dead.
God is only 'alive' in that he is in your thoughts. With that in mind I think Nietzche is alive as well seeing you just thought of him.
But I do get twitchy even joining a softball league.
It is funny to hear you say that because I am the same way. I am a very friendly person, but I just don't like to join any kind of group.
I always say that I even had a hard time joining the human race.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
