Science V Faith - Steven Hawking's Conclusion

[mordant]

I think Nozz and Arach both have a lot of need to be right. This is way more discussion than the subtopic really deserves.

It's not news that "faith" is a squishy and imprecise word with a couple of major senses in which it is used. It is true that "science" is averse to squishy and imprecise ANYTHING and also is not as clearly understood by the proverbial "man on the street" as most scientifically minded persons would like. It seems obvious to me that "faith" is probably not the best word to use when discussing what what thinks / feels concerning science, but ultimately I recognize that people are going to use whatever words they want to use and frequently no amount of suggestions of better alternatives will change that one iota.

Now we have to ask ourselves what the purpose or goal of any further bandying this matter about can possibly serve other than to try in vain to establish the rightness or erudition of one protagonist at the expense of the other. I suggest that at this point further debate of this ultimately technical point can only establish the pettiness of both. A Third Way is possible: agree to disagree and get on with the actual discussion.

[Arach Angle]

It is not about "being right". I also said what you just posted a few posts ago. I will not part take in misuse of the word "science" and "faith" to advance a position of anti-religion. I won't do it. I use and people around my way use it as a vernacular for "hope", likely that", or any other future outcome set of words. I conceded (i am wrong) that he does not have to have any "feeling" about what science can do if he so chooses. I only differ in telling others that they can't or that they are wrong to do so. That is flat out intellectual bullying.

I admit I am wrong if we stay strictly to the definitions. Me using the words "faith in science" is like saying "I have faith in accounting". I misuse the term "faith" with the word "accounting". Just Like I miss use the words "one bad set of wheels" in describing a muscle car. And I posted to you before that this difference is settled very quickly in a discussion in person. But i do make up stuff just to put down people of faith.

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by mordant

I think Nozz and Arach both have a lot of need to be right. This is way more discussion than the subtopic really deserves.

Not particularly. I just felt the word was used wrongly and now the user has admitted exactly that. Conversation over as far as I am concerned.

[mordant]

Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo

Not particularly. I just felt the word was used wrongly and now the user has admitted exactly that. Conversation over as far as I am concerned.

To be clear, I completely agree with your position, I just was getting weary of laboring it to this extent. Surprisingly for once the matter is resolved; but "resolved" for me doesn't have to be the other guy conceding the point when he clearly can't or won't. It could have been both parties being clear on their firm positions, noting it and moving on.

I will admit, when it comes to arch-theists on the other end of such conversations, they seldom have the grace and respect to do that, as they basically hold out for a faux "win" when one walks away from such unproductive and disingenuous conversations.