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Could you post you photo? I would like to hang it next to Rachel Slick's above my atheist altar - between Darwin and his prophet Dawkins (Nobel prizes be upon him).
P.s sorry..I just checked and you have....wow....If I was 30 years younger...
I posted my extensive story elsewhere, but i will try to heavily condense it here.
I was born on the island of St. Thomas in the U.S Virgin Islands. I was sent to live on the island of St. Kitts (then, still a British colony) where my father was from (from was from neighboring Nevis). For those of you who might not know this, the current Caribbean, shaped in slavery and the religion of the slave masters, is a heavily Christianized and conservative society. I also happened to be born during a time when new age Christian sects were making great inroads into the Caribbean to challenge the old hats (Catholics, Methodists, Anglicans). These were the Pentecostals, Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovah's Adventists.
Another factor was that radio programming from the United States beamed in, notably, from the Southern U.S, with tons of Gospel programming. This was the age of Oral Roberts, Billy Graham and others like R.W Schumbauch. Preachers, like the latter, would visit the islands with their "tent meetings," claiming to heal the sick and raise the dead. With so much of the population still receptive to the "God" idea, drilled into the heads of their forefathers over the centuries of slavery, it was just a way of life to believe in God and the bible - literally - much like blacks in the U.S.
My grandmother, in those days, only had a baby blue radio and that was our only exposure to the outside world. Her decision was to keep it stuck on the local Gospel station that beamed in Gospel programming from the U.S. For 8.5 years, all I heard around the house through that radio was bible talk. I knew of no other religion, no other dissenting opinion and it just passed through our society that the biblical god was real and a foregone conclusion that the bible was the literal world of that god.
After a 4 years stint in NY City after laving St. Kitts and then back to St. Thomas, I bit the bullet and gave in to the Christian camp and decided to become a dedicated Christian. After all, wasn't this supposed to be the path of every Caribbean person? I was just getting on board early. So, from the start, I became an avid bible reader and eventually became skilled at debating with "heathens."
Moved to NY City at 17 and continued on in a branch of my church from St. Thomas. Eventually left them for the more sublime Brooklyn Tabernacle before moving to South Florida where I ended up in mega church, Calvary Chapel. It was this point, AT THE HEIGHT OF MY CHRISTIAN EXPERIENCE, a point where I was smugly debating atheists and other non believers during the early years of the internet, the wheels began to fall off. They fell off with one single question:
"Why is it that the [alleged] greatest man to ever walk the earth ONLY found on the pages of the bible?"
This came about because I came across the [alleged] account of Jesus in the work of Josephus. I came to me that the account seemed so out of place; an interpolation, if you will. But, Josephus was not the only writer of the time so it struck as surprising that no one else took notice of this so-called miracle worker who was credited with unprecedented acts. Then I came across some tidbits from the second century critic, Celsus and my road to deconversion had begun.
While the story is far more complex than this, the fact is, I made an INTELLECTUAL decision to leave Christianity and, in addition, bypass ALL religion. This was not about me hating god or being disappointed in this deity. I was disappointed in myself to allow myself to be duped. Never again!
Nice post. Interesting to see someone start to doubt because of historical doubts - especially the Flavian Testament, which Christians seemed to be happy to accept as basically Josephus attesting to Jesus (give or take some christian additions). It is unusual to come across a devoted christian apologist who can see that it looks like a later insertion shoved in between two 'misfortunes' (one of which follows on from the other) and is only jammed in there becausse one of the misfortunes refers (as I recall) to Pilate.
Hi,after decades of being an evangelical Christian,and studying the bible,plus real world events,my life philosophy is now Naturalism/Humanism [Naturalism is "the idea or belief that only natural (as opposed to supernatural or spiritual) laws and forces operate in the world...the idea or belief that "nothing exists beyond the natural world."
While the story is far more complex than this, the fact is, I made an INTELLECTUAL decision to leave Christianity and, in addition, bypass ALL religion. This was not about me hating god or being disappointed in this deity. I was disappointed in myself to allow myself to be duped. Never again!
I grew up in a fundamentalist bubble also, even if not as extreme as yours, and while the catalyst for my deconversion was personal tragedies that belied the promised blessing / protection for believers, it probably would have happened by now even if my life had been fortunate. Because said "bubble" kept my intellect disengaged and sooner or later things would have leaked through it and increased my cognitive dissonance. At the very least, in the end I would have ended up working very hard to remain deliberately blinkered -- just as we see here on an almost daily basis with fundamentalist Christians on these fora. To the extent they engage with us unbelievers, they are actually putting on display their internal conflict between their reason and their dogma.
Hi,after decades of being an evangelical Christian,and studying the bible,plus real world events,my life philosophy is now Naturalism/Humanism [Naturalism is "the idea or belief that only natural (as opposed to supernatural or spiritual) laws and forces operate in the world...the idea or belief that "nothing exists beyond the natural world."
Not to mention that since we are creatures of the natural world, anything unnatural / supernatural is pretty much irrelevant and off the table because , by definition, it can't be assessed with our intellectual and perceptual equipment. And if something supernatural inserts itself into nature it becomes by definition part of nature. Supernatural is therefore an illogical construct from the get-go.
Re: 'greatest man to ever walk the earth ...ONLY in the Bible....
Well not really if we look at other sources. He's certainly one of those charismatic individuals who walked the earth that people seem to have a need to continually scribble and write about. An itch on humanity that never seems to go away, eh? In our day and age some people appear to be looking for 'medicine' to get rid of the 'itchy' guy who pervades existence...;-)...
Surely we cannot know history completely nor can we understand human or supernatural mystery. The personage of Christ I believe is an exceptional exception apparently given to historiography all study. I'd agree it has its challenges. But a 'fairy tale'...have to say nah nah nah. In the interest then of intellectual study it is incumbent to try understand the significance of the man name Christ. Lots of smart people are working on it and most are not dismissing the man.
While a lot has been written about Jesus, that is only because he has been the central figure of Rome's state religion from the 4th c on and the major religion of the technological, empire - building and colonialising west. Is it any wonder Jesus got touted about and discussed at length? But that means nothing; no more than totting up the number of Bibles printed and how many languages and topping the 'Influential persons' list. It does not do a single thing to Put Jesus on the historical Map.
Not a thing. For someone who was followed by crowds from all over the Decapolis, not one whisper in contemporary history. Josephus is the nearest, but his Flavian testament smacks strongly of what some Christian thought he should have written, rather than what he actually did write. Suetonius and Pliny at best write about Christians and how Rome dealt with them. They say nothing at all about Jesus' existence. Bar Serapieon only appears to mention Christian belief in the Gospel story - that the jews were responsible for Killing Jesus. Phelgon and Thallia only touch on the gospel account on the darkness at the resurrection.
Tacitus is the only writer - at a later date - to state that Jesus was executed by Pilate. I consider that the nearest to an extra -Bible attestation to Jesus. Even then, he could be relating the Christian claim, but I am willing to be open -minded about it.
Which means that it only says that Pilate crucified the man. I have never really doubted that. Even scrutiny of the gospels only served to convince me it was true...all the time I became convinced that pretty much all the rest was a fairy -tale. Or rather, four different ones.
I'm a bit of a specialist in the Gospel story and I can tell you that purely my own opinion is that one day, in my lifetime, I hope, the penny is going to drop that the falsity of the gospels is plain to be seen and the only reason they have got away with it up to now is that the skeptics haven't really looked (they seem to prefer to come up with some 'Life of Jesus' theory and cherry pick a few gospel passages to support it - a bit too much like creationist apologetics!) and the believers don't want to know, even if you tell them.
I am reminded of an article (linked on the boards) by William Lane Craig who is supposed to be a smarter cookie of the theist jar. His case for the resurrection was ludicrous. Rubbish. Poor reasoning at best and totally irrelevant at worst. I reckon I showed that - taking the accounts at face value - a disciple conspiracy to remove the body is almost the inevitable conclusion, for all that Craig tried to dismiss it out of hand.
True I can't debate with him, but I can say that nobody took me up on my explanation.
Now, I do anticipate a response and without giving anything away, 12 disciples is not an exhaustive list.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-28-2014 at 10:58 AM..
For me, the main reason for not believing in religion is that I have read the bible.
Take that any way you wish.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Amen.....years of bible study plus attention to history and real life finally cured me of my "Born Again" DELUSION! The vast majority of Christians spend a miniscule amount of time in actual reading/studying their bibles,so they have no idea what it says,they just let the preacher spoon-feed them whatever doctrine he wishes.
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