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There is no difference between religious and non-religious people as to how much they allow their children to question what they teach them so your distinction is moot.
Again, simply not true.
And frankly, people who think like you are doing their kids a grave disservice. Teaching children that they must accept everything that an authority tells them is - well, personally, I think it's disgusting. And I'm not easily disgusted.
And frankly, people who think like you are doing their kids a grave disservice. Teaching children that they must accept everything that an authority tells them is - well, personally, I think it's disgusting. And I'm not easily disgusted.
Well, unlike you I'm all about science, and since I've never read a scientific paper that said that religious people indoctrinate more than non-religious people, I'n not going to believe what you say on faith. Like I've said in the past, you have three different parenting styles: 1) permissive parenting 2) authoritative parenting, and 3) balanced parenting where you set some boundaries and allow exploration within those boundaries. Number 1 and 2 are bad, and really have equally toxic results. One does not need to be religious to be authoritative nor permissive as far as I can tell.
P.S. I'm only ribbing you about not being about science, so please don't take offence. You could very well be quite up on the science, but I'm just getting a playful jab while I get the chance.
One does not need to be religious to be authoritative nor permissive.
No, and I have seen examples of both styles in the religions and the areligious.
What we are talking about here, though, is not parenting styles or parental dysfunction as such. It is appeals to authority (god's, or religion's) concerning what a child is or is not allowed to believe. In point of fact if you are a permissive parent (by design or by weakness) then you would find appeals to authority very attractive because it gets you off the hook for taking a stand or enforcing anything yourself. Don't blame the messenger, it's god or the Bible or Pastor who says you have to do X or not do Y.
I argue that asserted truth with naught but faith to support it is a separate thing from your discipline style with your children. Faith-based "reasoning" is imparting faulty information about how we form beliefs, what our defaults are when proof is lacking, and what standards of evidence we use in assessing things. Granted, religion often uses special pleading in matters relating to god, and it is therefore possible for parents to still teach sound reasoning skills in other areas. But the more conservative the religious ideations are, the more "bleed through" there is into practical areas: one's sexual orientation and practices and attitudes, how one assesses concepts like "worthiness", "modesty", "personal boundaries", "tolerance", "respect" and a lot of other things are compromised.
In other words theistic notions do not help the human condition, and often exacerbate it. So sure, my father in law is an objectifying, shaming, authoritarian train wreck of a parent even though he doesn't have religion to help him along in it. But believe me, he'd have a hundred ways to be even worse if he had god's backing.
Often in life what appears to be true in theory doesn't translate to how it works in the real world. I don't think that we see any difference between religious and non-religious families. It could be true that conservative parents are more authoritarian, but this would also apply to conservative none-religious folks as well, and thus it's not the religion per se that is the problem.
Now, in my opinion based upon personal anecdotes, those on the right side of the spectrum are more prone to authoritarian parenting while those on the left are more prone to permissive parenting. This makes sense for obvious reasons. Both are equally bad. Generalizations and stereotypes are not always helpful either because someone can be on the far left or the far right, and still be an excellent parent that falls in the middle in terms of parenting.
There is no difference between religious and non-religious people as to how much they allow their children to question what they teach them so your distinction is moot.
Yes, there is. On the atheist parenting boards, you see almost every parent asking how to teach their children about religion and talking about raising critical thinkers. You will not see that with most religious parents. Think about the uproar that happens when schools take kids on field trips that include Mosques.
There are a few religious people who welcome questioning, but, ime, not a lot.
Well, unlike you I'm all about science, and since I've never read a scientific paper that said that religious people indoctrinate more than non-religious people, I'n not going to believe what you say on faith.
That's not my argument. I'm saying religious parents should not indoctrinate their kids about religion. They should wait until they're teenagers and have the capacity to think critically and reject their parents' faith. Children are impressionable and will believe anything. Religious parents tell their kids where they came from, where they're going, what the meaning of life is, and what would happen if they chose not to believe this. These are theological claims, not scientific claims. Kids needs to know how to succeed and how to behave, not what to believe.
In some ways it seems the idea is rather like the argument (connected with a priori god and the basis of how we arrive at any knowledge) that no beginning with any assumptions is in itself an assumption. It isn't, in the same way that not indoctrinating your kids with religious beliefs is not indoctrinating them with non -belief.
That's not my argument. I'm saying religious parents should not indoctrinate their kids about religion.
Ah, okay, fair enough. I disagree, but that's because I lean in a libertarian direction, and thus don't think the state or any third party should decide what is and isn't a valid indoctrination ideology.
That's not my argument. I'm saying religious parents should not indoctrinate their kids about religion. They should wait until they're teenagers and have the capacity to think critically and reject their parents' faith. Children are impressionable and will believe anything. Religious parents tell their kids where they came from, where they're going, what the meaning of life is, and what would happen if they chose not to believe this. These are theological claims, not scientific claims. Kids needs to know how to succeed and how to behave, not what to believe.
How does one avoid 'teaching' their kids something about religion?
A kid doesn't wait until they are a teenager to ask things like, "Why do we go to church and so&so doesn't? or vice versa.
The pledge of allegiance says under god...what is god?
So & so says we should pray for Sally because she's sick. What does that mean, or, conversely, they pray because you've already told them what prayer is.
It's Christmas, which is Jesus's birthday. They know who that is or they have to ask.
What is the building on the corner where all those people go on Sunday?
You do or don't promote religion in a million little ways all through a kids childhood.
It's tougher for a kid to become an questioning unbeliever, of course, since god is instilled as a fact of life.
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