How does an atheist define morality? (funeral, blood, followers, hell)

[Kereczr]

JViello you still haven't addressed me earlier post.

[Racket]

Thats what I think is wrong about the whole law and moral thing. If we base it on (what some consider to be absolute rubbish) religion/bible etc, then when taught we are not going to actually accept it. Morals should come from personal opinion of what to be good/bad right/wrong. We have gotten all ahead of our selves in a sense...dogs don't not go around trying to kill every other thing becuse they belive in a 'higher being' or because there is a law that says they should not do shuch a thing. It's just 'built in'. We, as humans (generally speaking obviously) seem to have lost this natural thinking. Instead we need to Be Taught not to kill (etc). Like omg how ridiculous.

[TheStudent]

Originally Posted by Racket

Thats what I think is wrong about the whole law and moral thing. If we base it on (what some consider to be absolute rubbish) religion/bible etc, then when taught we are not going to actually accept it.

That's not true if one learns to reverence/respect the God that they're taught to worship... and his words.

Originally Posted by Racket

Morals should come from personal opinion of what to be good/bad right/wrong.

That begs the question.. from where does one's "personal opinions" come?

Originally Posted by Racket

We have gotten all ahead of our selves in a sense...dogs don't not go around trying to kill every other thing becuse they belive in a 'higher being' or because there is a law that says they should not do shuch a thing. It's just 'built in'. We, as humans (generally speaking obviously) seem to have lost this natural thinking. Instead we need to Be Taught not to kill (etc). Like omg how ridiculous.

Many believe that a knowledge of the existence of God is "built in" to both man and beast; That we need to be TAUGHT the contrary.

[chielgirl]

I wasn't taught to be an atheist. I just don't believe in a god. I believe that people have to be taught to believe in a god.

My college buddy raised her kids without god or church or religion in any way, shape or form. Her children are in graduate programs in very difficult disciplines. The kids learned from their atheist parents how to live a full and rich life without hurting themselves or others; just like so many millions who have no religion.

[cleatis]

Originally Posted by TheStudent

Many believe that a knowledge of the existence of God is "built in" to both man and beast; That we need to be TAUGHT the contrary.

I couldn't agree more. If not believing is a choice, so is believing...

[steffan]

not sure if this has been said but, a dog knows how to be good at being a dog, a cat knows how to be a good cat, and humans know how to be good humans otherwise the species would not be

[Racket]

Originally Posted by TheStudent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racket
Thats what I think is wrong about the whole law and moral thing. If we base it on (what some consider to be absolute rubbish) religion/bible etc, then when taught we are not going to actually accept it.

That's not true if one learns to reverence/respect the God that they're taught to worship... and his words.

^ the point of my post was to say that a lot of people do not belive in god. So by teaching them eg 'tho shal not kill' - because 'god says so' is not a very good way to teach a society were not all of them belive in god.
For instance what happens if you teach a religious person to not kill (as an example) 'because god says so'. And they don't kill because they do not want to go to hell. What happens then if they loose their religion. There is now not the drastic consequence facing them as there was before. Instead of previously buliding their own morals they relied on 'the word of god' which they now do not believe. [/quote]

Originally Posted by TheStudent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racket
Morals should come from personal opinion of what to be good/bad right/wrong.

That begs the question.. from where does one's "personal opinions" come?

^ well i think religion has taken away the need for people to learn basic morals. It seems to split society into those who are religious - 'do good - and go to heaven'. And those who are atheist - made out to be bad - and go to hell. What happened to teaching children normal rite and wrong morals instead of what they should do because 'a higher being says so'.

Originally Posted by TheStudent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racket
We have gotten all ahead of our selves in a sense...dogs don't not go around trying to kill every other thing becuse they belive in a 'higher being' or because there is a law that says they should not do shuch a thing. It's just 'built in'. We, as humans (generally speaking obviously) seem to have lost this natural thinking. Instead we need to Be Taught not to kill (etc). Like omg how ridiculous.

Many believe that a knowledge of the existence of God is "built in" to both man and beast; That we need to be TAUGHT the contrary.

^ If that were the case - that the knowlage of the existance of god is built in to both man and beast then why do parents bring up their kids teaching them the religious ways? Why does it need to be taught in schools? And why do people feel the need to go around knocking on doors 'trying to sell' their religion?

[JViello]

Originally Posted by Kereczr

JViello you still haven't addressed me earlier post.

7 pages later it's a bit murky. Can you repost?

[Mooseketeer]

Originally Posted by chielgirl

I wasn't taught to be an atheist. I just don't believe in a god. I believe that people have to be taught to believe in a god.

My college buddy raised her kids without god or church or religion in any way, shape or form. Her children are in graduate programs in very difficult disciplines. The kids learned from their atheist parents how to live a full and rich life without hurting themselves or others; just like so many millions who have no religion.

I fully agree. Nobody taught me or influenced me to become an Atheist, my brain, my reason, common sense and yep even my heart all ensured that I do not believe in a god/gods.
In fact I spent most of my childhood surrounded by Catholics, and Protestants , and being scrupulously taught about all religions and philosophies. I even attended Church and Temple services, and even had a spiritual !quest! as a teenager.

I learnt, listened and everything told me that god did not exist. I never even saw any even remote sign that there was a supreme being out there.

My sense of morality is a mixture of the way I was brought up ( by a very strict, very moral Atheist father ) and the innate sense we all possess as human beings about right and wrong.

We all pretty much ( bar a few truly amoral people and maybe very psychologically disturbed individuals) have this inner moral compass which encompasses empathy, the greatest tool we possess in order not to hurt others.

Most of our moral sense may go haywire when our darker side takes over ( being selfish, greedy , overly lustful, spiteful, petty etc...) but in the end we all know when we do something wrong and make decisions we are fully responsible for.

A broad human sense of morality is not to hurt others, help others if they need it and as "civilised" members of whatever "pack" we belong to, abide by our own laws.

This seems true of people all over the world, Atheists or Believers. Natural "morality" exists in even in some "baser" creatures who can grieve, feel loss and pain and "help" others.

Feral Children raised by animals for example , are seen as vulnerable by the animal and "adopted" into the group and protected as vulnerable beings. This to me exhibits a profound sense of empathy, compassion ad nurturing. A form a Natural morality in fact.

Our moral compass has a quite a bit to do with our environment and also a lot to do with being part of a wider shared humanity.

To reduce our sense of morals to having a belief in a supernatural being at all is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest IMO.

We are all animals but have been given the gift of conscience and empathy. Choices we make in life are all our own. Or at least they should be.

[JViello]

Originally Posted by Mooseketeer

Feral Children raised by animals for example , are seen as vulnerable by the animal and "adopted" into the group and protected as vulnerable beings. This to me exhibits a profound sense of empathy, compassion ad nurturing. A form a Natural morality in fact.

Our moral compass has a quite a bit to do with our environment and also a lot to do with being part of a wider shared humanity.

To reduce our sense of morals to having a belief in a supernatural being at all is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest IMO.

We are all animals but have been given the gift of conscience and empathy. Choices we make in life are all our own. Or at least they should be.

With the "feral" child I assume you are talking about the "dog kids"...How does that show compassion? Those same dogs would tear the kid apart if he didn't conform to their social structure (If the kid tried to take food from one of them forcefully say) - which, fits right into the natural surrounds that we as humans exist and believe contrary too. Forced copulation is a part of their culture as well. Are you also saying that women are prepared to "breed" at their first period? Nature does. So why not humans?

This thread has been chasing a red herring for the last few pages so let me pull is all right back to the original thoughts then.

"Morality" as we know it, is contrary to the "evolution" and "nature" around us. Why would we as humans "evolve" contrary to our surroundings?

It just doesn't make sense.

Unless someone can tell me why something like parents and children having intimate sexual contact is wrong besides saying "because it is" or why we would have "compassion" when it's found nowhere in nature or why forced copulation is wrong when it happens in nature all the time, to me, proves we are unique creatures created as we are and NOT a product of evolution as many say.

The very fact that "right or wrong" exists wether we believe it or not (Objective morality) shows there is a law at work beyond ourselves.