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Old 11-08-2015, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,181,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
In evolutionary terms what you say is not altogether off kilter either. Imagine a history in which we lived more in the wild. When we hear a rustle in the bushes we have two choices. Assume it is nothing, and die quite quickly if it turns out we are wrong..... or assume it is something with intention towards us, react accordingly, and simply look a bit silly if we are wrong.

Clearly the former, not the latter, is going to be selected for in Natural Selection. So we very much are a species that has evolved prone to seeing agency and intention where none actually exists. And when we turn that natural and useful tendency on the universe around us, it is little wonder that people assume agency and intention there too and see gods where there is no actual basis for seeing gods.
I live on the doorstep of the wild. There is at least a third choice, the one I take most often when I hear a rustle in the woods at night: I pause and become more alert and await more sensory input before deciding whether or not to take action, and if so, what form that action should take.

For instance - retreat, prepare to defend, or attack.

 
Old 11-09-2015, 02:39 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 6,373,852 times
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I am not sure I see that as a third option but an extension of the option I already described. Which is that your action is a result of you erring on the side of agency rather than not. In other words the brain has evolved to err and act on the side of assuming agency rather than assuming no agency and doing nothing.
 
Old 11-09-2015, 04:32 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,717,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I live on the doorstep of the wild. There is at least a third choice, the one I take most often when I hear a rustle in the woods at night: I pause and become more alert and await more sensory input before deciding whether or not to take action, and if so, what form that action should take.

For instance - retreat, prepare to defend, or attack.
You don't need to live in the wild. In my built up area I hear a thump or rattle and my sub conscious panics "There's burglars in the house!!" My conscious mind tells it sternly to shut up. It's my mind playing tricks. So far it has always been right. At the same time it is always open to the possibility that this time...

Which is why I still maintain the Buddha shrine in the next room.
 
Old 11-09-2015, 05:33 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,998 posts, read 13,475,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I live on the doorstep of the wild. There is at least a third choice, the one I take most often when I hear a rustle in the woods at night: I pause and become more alert and await more sensory input before deciding whether or not to take action, and if so, what form that action should take.

For instance - retreat, prepare to defend, or attack.
You are describing an intentional override of "fight or flight" which is useful not in the wild but in urban, technological, and hopefully civil society. It is the choice in that setting most likely to result in survival / thriving.

Even on what you call the "doorstep of the wild" you have many luxuries that didn't exist for hunter-gatherers. You know way more about reality and how it actually works; paradoxically, rather than taking the mystery out of life, it adds to its wonder for you. You do not live anywhere near as hand-to-mouth. You are clad in your Goretex wilderness garb, have a full stomach and a steady food supply, stainless steel hunting knife, possibly a rifle at hand, likely a cell phone to summon help and your front door not far away as you contemplate the rustle at night. So you can afford to pause and wait. I submit that your distant ancestor could not afford to do so, and hence, "fight or flight", shoot now and aim later, was a survival adaptation that it in fact generally no longer is.
 
Old 11-09-2015, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,181,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
You are describing an intentional override of "fight or flight" which is useful not in the wild but in urban, technological, and hopefully civil society. It is the choice in that setting most likely to result in survival / thriving.

Even on what you call the "doorstep of the wild" you have many luxuries that didn't exist for hunter-gatherers. You know way more about reality and how it actually works; paradoxically, rather than taking the mystery out of life, it adds to its wonder for you. You do not live anywhere near as hand-to-mouth. You are clad in your Goretex wilderness garb, have a full stomach and a steady food supply, stainless steel hunting knife, possibly a rifle at hand, likely a cell phone to summon help and your front door not far away as you contemplate the rustle at night. So you can afford to pause and wait. I submit that your distant ancestor could not afford to do so, and hence, "fight or flight", shoot now and aim later, was a survival adaptation that it in fact generally no longer is.
I absolutely have access to all the above and am grateful for it, though I hope to never use my guns again. (And although I've had a cell phone for several years, I've never made a phone call with it. Hate the stupid thing. I just use it to text my sons.)

My point - which I guess I didn't make well - is that being hasty in either fight or flight, could mean disaster, depending on what is making the rustling noise. Either an aggressive action or running away will be fine if it's a raccoon. But the former would be unwise if it's a skunk. And neither would be recommended if a bear or wolf is making the noises.

Over the years I've spent hunting, photographing and simply observing wildlife, I learned the value of remaining still and/or moving slowly. Few animals are threatened by a human-sized lump on a rock or leaning against a tree or ambling like a sleepy two-legged bruin. An animal which does not feel threatened is unlikely to attack.

So, quite often the best thing to do is nothing. At least until it's determined with some degree of certainty what caused the rustling.

(Btw, my weapon of choice when checking why the dang dog is barking his head off is either a 9 iron or a Louisville Slugger. I keep one by the front door and one by the back.)
 
Old 11-09-2015, 09:10 AM
 
Location: in here, out there
3,062 posts, read 7,033,761 times
Reputation: 5109
My atheist friend was going on and on about how terrible religion is and about how there is no gods and then turned around and showed me a photograph of the reflection of something and she was sure it was a ghost.

The OP's premise is true.
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