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Old 12-08-2015, 05:23 PM
 
2,826 posts, read 2,360,574 times
Reputation: 1011

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Wrong. "There are certain freedoms" you have decided to give up.

(From one of the linked articles)
Quote:
Gibbs points out that the basis of America's religious liberty is based on the founding father's declaration that our rights are inalienable only if they are given by the Creator. If our freedoms are granted by the state, then the state may take them away at any time. When we no long recognize the Creator in our public discourse, we have capitulated our rights to the power of the state.
I wouldn't mind just ignoring it entirely and having the option of saying "Have a nice day." Being forced to say crap like we are puppets following a script. If that becomes the case, we should just ignore the holiday and let them deal with the headache of trying to run a secular commercial holiday without workers.

Guy makes the sale. "Have a nice day!" "I thought I told you to say 'Happy Holidays'." "But you don't respect the holidays anymore. So why should I?"

There are people of a differing faith. But saying Happy Holidays is ignoring all of them, and assuming everyone is a generic atheist. I fully expect that any real atheist will correct me, and I'm not a hardass about if they do. Customer wants me to say Happy Holidays, I will. Customer wants me to say Happy Hannukah, Blessed Yule, Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanzaa, sure whatever.

But I'm not genericizing my own faith on behalf of what people "might" get offended about.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...appy-holidays/

Quote:
When asked about how stores should greet their customers over the holidays, 42% of Americans prefer “Merry Christmas,” 12% prefer “Happy Holidays” and 46% say it doesn’t matter.
Btw, atheists are 5% of the population. That leaves another 7% who are just being obnoxious. For 12% of the population, we should cater to? Bull****. Those people can talk to me if it upsets them.

Merry Christmas, everyone! Have a Happy New Year!

Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 12-08-2015 at 05:49 PM..
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Old 12-08-2015, 07:13 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,302,670 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
Wrong. "There are certain freedoms" you have decided to give up.

(From one of the linked articles)
I wouldn't mind just ignoring it entirely and having the option of saying "Have a nice day." Being forced to say crap like we are puppets following a script. If that becomes the case, we should just ignore the holiday and let them deal with the headache of trying to run a secular commercial holiday without workers.

Guy makes the sale. "Have a nice day!" "I thought I told you to say 'Happy Holidays'." "But you don't respect the holidays anymore. So why should I?"

There are people of a differing faith. But saying Happy Holidays is ignoring all of them, and assuming everyone is a generic atheist. I fully expect that any real atheist will correct me, and I'm not a hardass about if they do. Customer wants me to say Happy Holidays, I will. Customer wants me to say Happy Hannukah, Blessed Yule, Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanzaa, sure whatever.

But I'm not genericizing my own faith on behalf of what people "might" get offended about.

‘Merry Christmas’ or ‘Happy Holidays’? | Pew Research Center

Btw, atheists are 5% of the population. That leaves another 7% who are just being obnoxious. For 12% of the population, we should cater to? Bull****. Those people can talk to me if it upsets them.

Merry Christmas, everyone! Have a Happy New Year!
You are assuming that all atheists are in the Happy Holiday camp. You are also assuming that those others in that group are doing it to be obnoxious whereas you might think a store clerk who is not a Christian should say Merry Christmas to a customer who might also be Christian.

I am an atheist who thinks the war on Christians is totally bunk and a way to put down all non Christians once a year and yet I do say merry Christmas to others and would have answered doesn't matter.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:42 AM
 
2,826 posts, read 2,360,574 times
Reputation: 1011
What other explanation could there be? 42% (this averages for both political parties, with liberals less likely to prefer Merry Christmas, but much more likely to be in the "don't really care" camp) would prefer it if I just stick to my guns, 46% don't really mind.

This 88% total population, not population of Christians. Which means the people who are telling me to do this have no legitimacy, they are just doing it to be control freaks. I don't work in retail anymore, thank God, so I don't have to care about selling to people. I do have to worry about deadbeats no paying their library fines, and I'm unlikely to wish them seasons greetings of any kind until they get their act together, and remember due dates.

FIND YOUR DAMNED BOOKS...

When 88% of the people are forced to be sensitive to 1 in 20, sure they can do it, but there is a group making war on them.

I belong to a minority of my own. Transgender. All of them want a place to pee, but it's enough that safe place is made available. I'd prefer to be seen with other women but... Forcing people to treat us like women in a place where public changing goes on, not so much. It is one thing for a minority to have basic safety and rights, but quite another to demand that the majority bow and scrape to the demands of people that don't represent them. Give me a place to work, and a place to pee, and don't single me out. I don't understand the mentality of bullying the majority.

Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 12-09-2015 at 05:16 AM..
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Old 12-09-2015, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Baldwin County, AL
2,446 posts, read 1,381,541 times
Reputation: 605
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
Wrong. "There are certain freedoms" you have decided to give up.

(From one of the linked articles)
I wouldn't mind just ignoring it entirely and having the option of saying "Have a nice day." Being forced to say crap like we are puppets following a script. If that becomes the case, we should just ignore the holiday and let them deal with the headache of trying to run a secular commercial holiday without workers.

Guy makes the sale. "Have a nice day!" "I thought I told you to say 'Happy Holidays'." "But you don't respect the holidays anymore. So why should I?"

There are people of a differing faith. But saying Happy Holidays is ignoring all of them, and assuming everyone is a generic atheist. I fully expect that any real atheist will correct me, and I'm not a hardass about if they do. Customer wants me to say Happy Holidays, I will. Customer wants me to say Happy Hannukah, Blessed Yule, Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanzaa, sure whatever.

But I'm not genericizing my own faith on behalf of what people "might" get offended about.

‘Merry Christmas’ or ‘Happy Holidays’? | Pew Research Center

Btw, atheists are 5% of the population. That leaves another 7% who are just being obnoxious. For 12% of the population, we should cater to? Bull****. Those people can talk to me if it upsets them.

Merry Christmas, everyone! Have a Happy New Year!
Yea, see how well it would go over with your employer if you said, "Hey boss, I am going to do whatever the hell I want, because I am not going to let you take away my rights!". Every job has things you can't do. Offending customers, even if it is only a small percentage, is generally one of those things. It is not just about the holidays either. You can't say all sorts of things to customers. I would love to tell some of the people I deal with to go suck a lemon, but guess what? I can't, because I would get fired. Get over it.


You seem to think that saying "Happy Holidays" is somehow bowing down to atheists or something. You do realize Christmas is a holiday right? As in, Happy Holidays also means Christmas? It isn't like you can just say, "Hey customer, what religion are you so I can say the appropriate thing?" You are free to be an idiot and say whatever you want at work, but don't expect to keep your job.


There are many more atheists/agnostics than people think. A lot of us are "in the closet" so to speak. Especially here in the south. People look at you like you have a 3rd head if you tell them you are an atheist. Not to mention those who fear what their family might say or do. You can believe that small percentage if you like, but it is much higher than that.


It amazes me that someone who claims to be transgender can't understand why people of all groups should be included. Baffles me, really.
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Old 12-09-2015, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Dallas
247 posts, read 236,085 times
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I'm still trying to get past the fact that burma linked "hostile work environments for theists" to Jack Chick's website.
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Old 12-09-2015, 05:08 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,524,475 times
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love the tilting bells tilting bells tilting tis the reason for the season.
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:45 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,302,670 times
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Saying Happy Holidays not only includes those who are not Christians but also includes all the days that are not Christmas, such as New Year's and all the days in between. Here it would include Boxing Day.
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Old 12-09-2015, 07:31 PM
 
3,402 posts, read 2,779,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
Saying Happy Holidays not only includes those who are not Christians but also includes all the days that are not Christmas, such as New Year's and all the days in between. Here it would include Boxing Day.
Yep!

My wife has an absolute blast with people's reactions, because she makes a point to wish everybody whatever holiday it actually is...

On Eid, everybody gets an Eid Mubarak regardless of your faith. Happy Hannukah, Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanzaa, Happy Korean New Year, Happy Chinese New Year, all get used as appropriate. It is amazing how here in the US, it is only American Christians ( and only some of those) who get their hackles up...

Everybody else is tickled pink to get their religion, nation, or culture recognized, and are accepting that others get their day. It is amazing how simple it is to make others feel welcome and accepted. And also amazing how one group acts as though that kindness and acceptance somehow diminishes them...

-NoCapo

P.S. She usually skips Boxing Day, because Kwanzaa starts on the same day, but maybe we should include it too. Gotta show some love for the remains of the British Empire
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Old 12-10-2015, 05:42 AM
 
8,005 posts, read 7,172,138 times
Reputation: 18165
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored View Post

There are many more atheists/agnostics than people think. A lot of us are "in the closet" so to speak. Especially here in the south. People look at you like you have a 3rd head if you tell them you are an atheist. Not to mention those who fear what their family might say or do. You can believe that small percentage if you like, but it is much higher than that.
True that. There are plenty of places in the south where it would be safer to be ISIS than atheist.
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Old 12-10-2015, 07:29 AM
 
2,826 posts, read 2,360,574 times
Reputation: 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored View Post
Yea, see how well it would go over with your employer if you said, "Hey boss, I am going to do whatever the hell I want, because I am not going to let you take away my rights!". Every job has things you can't do. Offending customers, even if it is only a small percentage, is generally one of those things. It is not just about the holidays either. You can't say all sorts of things to customers. I would love to tell some of the people I deal with to go suck a lemon, but guess what? I can't, because I would get fired. Get over it.


You seem to think that saying "Happy Holidays" is somehow bowing down to atheists or something. You do realize Christmas is a holiday right? As in, Happy Holidays also means Christmas? It isn't like you can just say, "Hey customer, what religion are you so I can say the appropriate thing?" You are free to be an idiot and say whatever you want at work, but don't expect to keep your job.


There are many more atheists/agnostics than people think. A lot of us are "in the closet" so to speak. Especially here in the south. People look at you like you have a 3rd head if you tell them you are an atheist. Not to mention those who fear what their family might say or do. You can believe that small percentage if you like, but it is much higher than that.


It amazes me that someone who claims to be transgender can't understand why people of all groups should be included. Baffles me, really.
I don't think so. I believe in rights. Not "inclusiveness". I'm a fairly rare bird among transgender, I'm moderate borderline conservative (still don't vote). It is enough for transgender people to not be singled out, to be treated as women. I don't pipe up whenever someone mentions a list of people "don't forget the transgender community" or demand people apologize for misgendering me. I demand a workplace free of transsexism ("you're a guy lift this etc" though I will help lift and move with everyone else, I no longer take jobs that are sexist grunt work) molestation or abuse, and where unlike many transgender I am not forced into prostitution.

In general I don't say any holiday greetings at all but just return holiday greetings. If someone legitimately says Happy Holidays to me, I probably will say so back. There is no plot to mock atheists for Christmas. But there seems to be one that if someone says Merry Christmas to you, you're supposed to think about all the potential religious holidays, rather than return in kind because otherwise you're not being "inclusive". Let's talk about the Jews. In the race to be "inclusive" (a far leftist buzzword for making people feel that they aren't doing enough) we replace any mention of Hanukkah for a cold sterile phrase.

Atheists are meant to have rights. But so is the employee. When the employee is told to be inclusive at the expense of even common sense (ie, not allowed to wish someone Merry Christmas, even if the bulk of the population wishes it to you), you effectively have the message that past the jerk who insists on Merry Christmas no matter what (I'm not that person), what other people say to us is a trap and we can't respond in kind. It also gives a message loud and clear that the employer doesn't have your back
That if there is a customer causing grief (actually costing the company money through repeated whining for refunds we can't give), the employer will ignore even the good of the company to stand against you on behalf of a customer that is counterproductive to actual business.
Top 5 Reasons Why 'The Customer Is Always Right' Is Wrong*|*Alexander Kjerulf
When it is your job to help a customer, you do to the best of your ability. When a customer throws a temper tantrum over not getting perks they don't qualify for, and does it on a consistent basis, you need to let that customer go.

I don't mind saying Happy Holidays, sometimes. I mind a toxic Christmas environment. With tinsel and trees and all the rest, but the warmth isn't there. The tree is fake. And you deal with customers that want you to give them money when they made bad decisions. Most of us just want to go home on Christmas and feel warm and safe with our families. Instead we put up with people who have no charm or class harassing us over small change problems. I didn't say Happy Holidays to you. I wasn't being inclusive. Yeah.... get over it. You have no idea what it's like to work in customer service over Christmas. You need to keep your job, so you are put through a nightmare.

No. As a transgender person I DON'T understand inclusiveness. I understand what it's like for coworkers and other people in retail, and want to not dump my **** on them. Apparently you don't mind doing it though, I see.
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