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This is not usually true. Most atheists believe that there is no evidence for god. At such time as evidence is presented, that view will change. I believe 100% that I am having chicken for dinner.
If a scientific evidence is provided where we prove the existence of God by an experiment in a lab, then believing in existence in God is not a "faith"'anymore. And you do know what is meant by the word "faith"?
So if you think you will believe in something only after a proof is provided then prove it to me that you had a great, great grand father.
Hot air from the mouth won't do.
To prove this scientifically, you will need to find his grave, get a piece of his bone and attempt to get a DNA sample, then you will need to find the grave of his wife, and do the same till you follow the parenting chain of a 3 to 4 generations all the way to your parents, and then to yourself.
Did you have a great grand father? Yes, you sure did.
Can you scientifically prove it in a lab? No you probably can't.
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You start start a new work week. You are two weeks away from getting paid.
Can you scientifically prove that your pay check or direct deposit will hit the bank at the end of pay period?
No you can't.
However you will work your butt off for two weeks because you have FAITH based on Employement agreement that you will get your pay check.
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You get sick and consult a physician who prescribes a medication.
Do you ask the doctor to prove it to you in a scientific experiment that this medication will help me getting cured?
No you don't!
You put your FAITH in word of mouth of the doctor and the drug manufacturer who claims that they have done all the hard work experimenting, and know that this medicine will work.
And you start taking the medication as prescribed by the doctor. Why? Because you have faith!
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Finding God does not work by someone bringing you a proof.
It starts with a DESIRE to find God.
If you don't have a desire or need to find God then it's a useless endevour to argue.
If you DO have a desire to find God then you start a journey to look for his signs (by analyzing the scriptures of all religions) - use your intelligence and connect the dots to put your faith into.
Last edited by GoCardinals; 12-20-2015 at 10:06 AM..
Human biology, which is a science, explains the life cycle. If I exist, then I had a great grandfather.
Contract laws, employment laws, banking laws, etc. govern the business of employer/employee relationships. If there is a breach of contract I have legal remedies.
The FDA approves drugs that have been scientifically tested, and are prescribed by a doctor who has been educated.
Not one of your three scenarios involved faith. You are mistaking faith for societal norms, which can be described through the field of sociology.
Pascal's wager in and of itself isn't annoying. Pitiable, yes -- annoying, no.
What is annoying are newbies who jump in and serve up a trite, illogical, oft-refuted argument wherein they think "A-ha! I'm sure those atheists have never faced anything so daunting as this Pascal thing that I just discovered five minutes ago! I'll devastate them by presenting it!". Also annoying are those individuals who think bad arguments get better on the retelling.
Care to address the blatantly wrong assumption on the part of Pascal that belief can simply be turned on? Care to deal with Pascal's nonsensical binary assertion when, in fact, there are myriad deities and near-infinite permutations on their possible reactions to belief?
No?
Yeah, that's about what I thought.
But I'm sure you're feeling good about those brownie points you think you won from your deity for your drive-by...
If a scientific evidence is provided where we prove the existence of God by an experiment in a lab, then believing in existence in God is not a "faith"'anymore. And you do know what is meant by the word "faith"?
So if you think you will believe in something only after a proof is provided then prove it to me that you had a great, great grand father.
Hot air from the mouth won't do.
To prove this scientifically, you will need to find his grave, get a piece of his bone and attempt to get a DNA sample, then you will need to find the grave of his wife, and do the same till you follow the parenting chain of a 3 to 4 generations all the way to your parents, and then to yourself.
Did you have a great grand father? Yes, you sure did.
Can you scientifically prove it in a lab? No you probably can't.
-----------
You start start a new work week. You are two weeks away from getting paid.
Can you scientifically prove that your pay check or direct deposit will hit the bank at the end of pay period?
No you can't.
However you will work your butt off for two weeks because you have FAITH based on Employement agreement that you will get your pay check.
------
You get sick and consult a physician who prescribes a medication.
Do you ask the doctor to prove it to you in a scientific experiment that this medication will help me getting cured?
No you don't!
You put your FAITH in word of mouth of the doctor and the drug manufacturer who claims that they have done all the hard work experimenting, and know that this medicine will work.
And you start taking the medication as prescribed by the doctor. Why? Because you have faith!
------
Finding God does not work by someone bringing you a proof.
It starts with a DESIRE to find God.
If you don't have a desire or need to find God then it's a useless endevour to argue.
If you DO have a desire to find God then you start a journey to look for his signs (by analyzing the scriptures of all religions) - use your intelligence and connect the dots to put your faith into.
Not all science is done in a lab. Science does not prove, it provides the best explanation for the entire set of data. The fact that we do not think that reincarnation best explains what happens when we die, does not mean we should therefore accept it based on we should just because. Oh you do not accept reincarnation but an afterlife, then why not?
Medicine passes clinical trials before it is allowed onto the market. Those are controlled experiments same as would be done in a lab except it is too expensive to keep people living in a lab for days, weeks or even years. The doctor prescribed the medicine based on his diagnosis plus the test results of the medicine. I have trust that the doctor has prescribed the correct drug based on his or her experience plus the test results it is trust based on my experiences not faith. When I get bronchitis I go to the doctor and tell her I have bronchitis, she asks me why I think that and I tell her why based on how it felt the other times. She does not use faith that I am telling the truth but checks me out and then asks me if the medicine I got last time works and the prescient it. If it did not work we would try something else. This is not using faith.
And you are wrong about the DNA needing every step, nor do many of us need scientific evidence for everything, some evidence is all that is required. I had great great, grandparents because each of us had parents including our parents. I have no idea who my great great grandparents were, not even their nsmes, but according to you I therefore could not claim to have had them.
Interesting that one needs the desire to find a god before there is any evidence for one. Back on topic, is it best to believe in every religion to be on the safe side or should one put their life on just one in the hopes it is the right one. Will you as a believer in Islam I think suffer a worse fate than I an unbeliever upon reincarnation if the Hindi are the ones that are correct? But can you even consider that you are wrong and they are right? That is one adpect of the wager that makes no sense, it depends entirely on your religion being the correct one.
Human biology, which is a science, explains the life cycle. If I exist, then I had a great grandfather.
Contract laws, employment laws, banking laws, etc. govern the business of employer/employee relationships. If there is a breach of contract I have legal remedies.
The FDA approves drugs that have been scientifically tested, and are prescribed by a doctor who has been educated.
Not one of your three scenarios involved faith. You are mistaking faith for societal norms, which can be described through the field of sociology.
As I said, hot air from the mouth won't do.
We need a scientific proof of everything I said.
You are either using logic or believing in someone's else word to believe in something.
Or else, using logic and common sense, I can also ponder and say, look at the size of a human voice box.
This tiny piece of an organ that looks the same in all human, produces a unique voice for every human being on the earth - that's 7 billion unique sounds for a bare minimum. Isn't there is SINGLE co-incidence that two people among the 7 billion have the same voice? What does it tell you? Someone is controlling the scenario of how our voice boxes produce a sound.
I mean, look at the lotto. A couple of 100 million scenarios and it's a coincidence that someone (or random pick by lotto machine) comes up with the same exact numbers as the jack pot draw. So a eries of exact same numbers are matched by two different entities. And that happens every other week or so.
Here you are talking about 7 BILLION odds over thousands of years of human history. There HAS to be at least ONE MATCH (every hour, if you compare the odds with lotto winning) where two people have the same sound, or finger prints, just like two different entities pick the same series of lotto numbers every other week. Does it happen?
Every single of these 7 billion specie has a unique scent. Isnt there is a single scenario where among the 7 billion, there could be two humans with the same scent?
What does logic tell you? Someone has to have a super tight control over creating a unique scent for every individual. Someone has to have a super tight control over how our voice box produces a sound, how our finger prints are crafted. It cannot be a conincidence, otherwise just like lotto, we would have had an identical match between two humans.
Does that scientifically prove the existence of God? No it doesn't * BUT * it's a sign for those who have a desire to find God.
Not everyone has a desire to find God so this path is not for everyone.
Just like some folks love Harley's or bikes in general so they go out to find more about it and get well versed with all the models and designs and prices. And that doesn't mean that everyone should start taking interest in Harley's. Other folks have interest and desire to watch football. Does that mean, everyone should start knowing more about football?
Finding God is a choice that comes with a desire.
And as stated before, it's a useless endevour to arugu if one doesn't have this desire. Why would want to learn quantum physics when you don't have any desire to how the atoms and photons behave? Why would you go to a doctor if you don't feel sick? Why would you look for GPS direction to a destination you don't intend to go?
It's all based on desire.
We have all found our truths, whether we believe in God or not. And we have made our choices based on free will,
And in the end, we will be responsible for our choices.
But then you make claims that you have not tested such as each 7 billion humans have a distinct scent. I do not know if that is true or not but we know from experience that every person ever born had a parent hence it is logical to state that every person had a grand parent. And a great grandparent. None of what you have posted backs Pascal's wager so therefore means nothing in this thread.
Being a good person is the only choice we all should make, the rest have little bearing on how we affect others. As far as faith in a religion, it is most closely linked on your parents and where you live than any dots that need to be connected. Just because I trust that my grandparents had parents without any scientific evidence that they lived does not mean I should accept your god or any one's else's god based on that your understanding of science or atheism is n9t very strong.
As I said, hot air from the mouth won't do.
We need a scientific proof of everything I said.
You are either using logic or believing in someone's else word to believe in something.
Saying it requires scientific proof doesn't make it true. When I fall asleep at night I don't need scientific proof that gravity won't just stop working overnight and I'll float away in the middle of the night.
Knowledge is passed to an individual through a variety of means. Self exploration, learned experts, documentation, etc. Some of this knowledge is based on scientific sources - like medicine - some from documentation - like history.
If people followed your premise then society would grind to a halt. Imagine if every day you had to take apart your car and rebuild it, and drill and refine your own gasoline, just to be sure that the internal combustion engine works so you can drive to work.
It isn't faith that causes you to not float away or for your car to start in the morning.
Of course, you know that. You're being pointlessly argumentative and I'm done.
It starts with a DESIRE to find God.
If you don't have a desire or need to find God then it's a useless endevour to argue.
If you DO have a desire to find God then you start a journey to look for his signs (by analyzing the scriptures of all religions) - use your intelligence and connect the dots to put your faith into.
Well, it's nothing new to observe that desire to see what you want to see can distort your perceptions so that you genuinely do see something that actually isn't there. The scientific method was invented precisely to minimize this all-too-human failing. It's your choice to avail yourself of it or not.
For myself, it's sufficient to note that of all the world's "holy scriptures", not a single one mentions smallpox, let alone how to really get rid of it.
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