Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hi.
I was born to a "jewish" family but I do not believe in judaism and I do not see myself as "jewish".
Judaism is not a race it's a religion, a belief, a mental abstract, it's not a tangible physical thing.
let me illustrate my point.
Being black for instance is a physical thing.
If you were to delete the memories of all black people , and put them on a lonely island, would they still be black?.
Yes. Because being black is a physical thing.
Now if you were to delete the memories of all those who are called "jews" and put them on a lonely island, would they still be "jewish"?.No. they would not know what judaism even is. they would be people of a certain race probably semitic , as most of those who are called "jews" belong to that race.
Now you all realise that judaism, just like any other religion or ideology had to be invented at some point.
There no jews at the time the pyramids were built in 2600 bc. How come?. Simply because judaism wasn't invented yet.
Just like there were no communists in the 1600's right?. Because this ideology called communism wasn't invented yet.
Judaism was probably invented at 700bc something like that.
So if you'd go back in the family line of every so called "jew" at somepoint his ancestors were not "jews" because the religion/ ideology was not invented yet.
They were just semites and NOT "jewish" or "jews".
I refer to myself a a semitic atheist and NOT as a "jew", or "jewish" or as an "atheist jew" or a "non practicing jew" or any of that.
Simply a semitic atheist.
beautiful and simple.
Hi.
I was born to a "jewish" family but I do not believe in judaism and I do not see myself as "jewish".
Judaism is not a race it's a religion, a belief, a mental abstract, it's not a tangible physical thing.
let me illustrate my point.
Being black for instance is a physical thing.
If you were to delete the memories of all black people , and put them on a lonely island, would they still be black?.
Yes. Because being black is a physical thing.
Now if you were to delete the memories of all those who are called "jews" and put them on a lonely island, would they still be "jewish"?.No. they would not know what judaism even is. they would be people of a certain race probably semitic , as most of those who are called "jews" belong to that race.
Now you all realise that judaism, just like any other religion or ideology had to be invented at some point.
There no jews at the time the pyramids were built in 2600 bc. How come?. Simply because judaism wasn't invented yet.
Just like there were no communists in the 1600's right?. Because this ideology called communism wasn't invented yet.
Judaism was probably invented at 700bc something like that.
So if you'd go back in the family line of every so called "jew" at somepoint his ancestors were not "jews" because the religion/ ideology was not invented yet.
They were just semites and NOT "jewish" or "jews".
I refer to myself a a semitic atheist and NOT as a "jew", or "jewish" or as an "atheist jew" or a "non practicing jew" or any of that.
Simply a semitic atheist.
beautiful and simple.
I apologize in advance because this post put me in mind of an SNL skit and I couldn't get it out of my head. One of the cast was reciting Shakespeare's Shylock. "Hath not a Jew . . . etc." after several lines from offscreen came a voice saying "No Jew Boy!"
Fine. I really don't understand the fixation, or your need to flog this, but you are certainly well within your rights to identify or not with whatever you please. And this is no less valid if some people consider themselves atheist Jews. It isn't a contest. It is just different points of view. You are not your beliefs.
I'm an atheist who happens to be a lot of things -- introverted, heady, coffee drinker, etc. I could very easily be Buddhist, Taoist, certain sects of Quakers or Judaism, or Unitarian / Universalist and still be atheist, because there are religious traditions who don't have a god on offer and others who tolerate theism and atheism alike because they are not creedal in nature or find cultural aspects of the group at least as important as religious ones.
Having a Judaic heritage might be similar to a Hispanic heritage (although a Hispanic heritage doesn't have an overarching mythos within a single basket of books/canon). Being of African American heritage or Haitian heritage might be different than just being black-skinned, I suppose. Of course, if we are going to have socially made-up "races" be based off of skin color, why not create other "races" based off of hair color or eye color or nose type or ear type, etc?
Since we don't yet have another socially accepted word for Judaic heritage, a lot of people call just a heritage a "Jewish race."
Having a Judaic heritage might be similar to a Hispanic heritage (although a Hispanic heritage doesn't have an overarching mythos within a single basket of books/canon). Being of African American heritage or Haitian heritage might be different than just being black-skinned, I suppose. Of course, if we are going to have socially made-up "races" be based off of skin color, why not create other "races" based off of hair color or eye color or nose type or ear type, etc?
Since we don't yet have another socially accepted word for Judaic heritage, a lot of people call just a heritage a "Jewish race."
Ok, you obviously DID NOT understand what I explained , and why there is no such thing as a "jewsih race" so I guess i'll have to explain to you again.
Let me explain to you like this:
Let's say communism wasn't invented in the 19th century , but it was invented 2500 years ago in russia.
And let's say that a major rule in communism was to only marry other communists.
So After 2500 years you would say - ahh they are communists !
No , communism is what they BELIEVE IN ,IT IS NOT their RACE. Because they were in russia so their race would probably be slavic.
Now the same with the story of judaism and the so called "jews" who are actually semites as I will explain.
Judaism was invented / founded ( whatever you want to call it ) in what is now israel , an area that was called Canaan. Now those who were there were semitic tribes.
So now after 2500 years you are telling me - you are "jewish".
NO I AM NOT ''jewish" or a "jew" because I DO NOT believe in Judaism - i do not believe there is a god called "jehova" who created the world in 6 days and then he rested on the 7th , and then he created adam and eve , and then he chose the jews , I DO NOT believe in it.
I believe there is no such thing as a "god", and I believe in the Big Bang theory , and that we evolved from apes through millions of years of evolution.
But my race is probably semitic.
You have to realise like I explained to you with the example of communism , that belief/religion/ideology and RACE are two DIFFERENT things.
It is the exact thing if you will tell those so called " communists" from my example - you'r race is "communist" . NO THEIR RACE WILL NOT BE COMMUNIST , because communism ( like judaism , is an abstract thing, a belief system ) IT IS NOT A RACE.
Same with "judaism".
MY RACE IS NOT "JEWISH" BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING.
BECAUSE JUDAISM IS A ****RELIGION **** AN ABSTRACT THING , IT IS NOT SOMETHING TANGIBLE/PHYSICAL.
IT IS WHAT PEOPLE ****BELIEVE**** IN NOT WHAT THEIR RACE IS.
My race is probably semitic.
That's why I identify as a semitic atheist.
I think there are differences to be pointed out between cultural Jews and actual followers of Judaism. The better analogy than communism would be a cultural heritage which has religious ties to it....such as cultural Catholics.
Maybe you don't consider yourself a cultural Jew either, and that's your prerogative to do so, but I think your argument conflates the same things you're arguing against...just in a different way.
I think there are differences to be pointed out between cultural Jews and actual followers of Judaism. The better analogy than communism would be a cultural heritage which has religious ties to it....such as cultural Catholics.
Maybe you don't consider yourself a cultural Jew either, and that's your prerogative to do so, but I think your argument conflates the same things you're arguing against...just in a different way.
I'm giving communism as an exmaple of something that people BELIEVE in , an ABSTRAST thing that people believe in just like religion ( judaism in this case)which is DIFFERENT from their RACE which is PHYSICAL
TANGIBLE.
And no , I DO NOT see myself as a "cultural jew" or "a non-practicing jew" or any of that, I am sinply an atheist semite.
THAT's IT.
I have 0% to do with judaism.
I do not care what my recent ancestors believed in , but my distant semitic ancestors who were polytheists ,CERTAINLY DID NOT believe in judaism because it was not invented yet at their time, so they were NOT ''jews'' or "jewish".
Having a Judaic heritage might be similar to a Hispanic heritage (although a Hispanic heritage doesn't have an overarching mythos within a single basket of books/canon). Being of African American heritage or Haitian heritage might be different than just being black-skinned, I suppose. Of course, if we are going to have socially made-up "races" be based off of skin color, why not create other "races" based off of hair color or eye color or nose type or ear type, etc?
Since we don't yet have another socially accepted word for Judaic heritage, a lot of people call just a heritage a "Jewish race."
The last part is correct - it is what a lot of people call it. That's different than saying that those people are correct. The term I think is sometimes more confusing is "Judaic" which the dictionary refers to as being about the "ancient Jews". But there was a region/province (under Romans) that I have seen called either Judah or Judea and had geographic boundaries. People from that area shared many social, cultural and to some extent physical attributes - a heritage - that primarily, but not exclusively, included the Jewish faith. I really strive to be PC but it really gets difficult to talk about much of anything concerning the origins of ethnic groups because almost every term you use will set someone off.
Looking at what LuminousTruth said:The last part is correct - it is what a lot of people call it. That's different than saying that those people are correct. The term I think is sometimes more confusing is "Judaic" which the dictionary refers to as being about the "ancient Jews". But there was a region/province (under Romans) that I have seen called either Judah or Judea and had geographic boundaries. People from that area shared many social, cultural and to some extent physical attributes - a heritage - that primarily, but not exclusively, included the Jewish faith. I really strive to be PC but it really gets difficult to talk about much of anything concerning the origins of ethnic groups because almost every term you use will set someone off.
None of you want to understand it do you???.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "JEWISH RACE". JUDAISM IS A RELIGION, IT'S WHAT PEOPLE ***BELIEVE*** IN,IT'S A MENTAL ABSTRACT NOT A RACE. THE RACE OF THOSE WHO ARE CALLED ''JEWS" is probably semitic, as JUDAISM was founded in what is now israel, an area which was inhabited by semitic tribes, so the first people who belived in this religion called "JUDAISM" were semitic.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "JEWISH RACE". JUDAISM IS A RELIGION, IT'S WHAT PEOPLE ***BELIEVE*** IN,IT'S A MENTAL ABSTRACT NOT A RACE. THE RACE OF THOSE WHO ARE CALLED ''JEWS" is probably semitic, as JUDAISM was founded in what is now israel, an area which was inhabited by semitic tribes, so the first people who belived in this religion called "JUDAISM" were semitic.
If you want to get technical about it, "semitic" refers to langauge, not geography and not a race of people. But a lot of people use the term the way you do. That's fine; I don't object to that. It does bother me when others insist one their terminology in cases like this where there is no clear cut single term. If someone interprets "Semitic atheist" to mean a person who speaks Hebrew or Arabic and doesn't believe in a deity they woun't be wrong.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
