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I'm quite afraid of death, but I am also quite afraid of not valuing logic more than emotion. Therefore, atheism.
I'm not afraid of death...so long as it never happens to me. But promises of eternal life don't appeal either...I have a cunning plan.... I am not intending to actually, in fact, die. You unlucky buggers will have have to put up with me indefinitely.
I'm quite afraid of death, but I am also quite 'afraid' of not valuing logic more than emotion. Therefore, atheism. (And therefore your argument about the preeminence of psychology/emotion...if I only possessed the former fear and not the latter, then I wouldn't value intellectual honesty over anxiety minimization).
I share a ... I don't know, distaste, if not exactly a fear ... of emotion uninformed by intellectual honesty or logic. I do not trust such a configuration. Rather I want intellectual integrity judiciously informed by feeling.
What I think many theists have, is a fear of being wrong and being punished for it. So they seek out authoritarian pronouncements of correctness and embrace them without regard for reason, but rather, only with regard to what they see as the overwhelming power of the authority-figure (a deity, and/or its earthly proxies). That is what drives the devaluing of reason and logic. It's far more important to be your authority's "yes-man" than to risk free thought.
I'm quite afraid of death, but I am also quite 'afraid' of not valuing logic more than emotion. Therefore, atheism. (And therefore your argument about the preeminence of psychology/emotion...if I only possessed the former fear and not the latter, then I wouldn't value intellectual honesty over anxiety minimization).
I am not afraid of "death", I am afraid of how painful it could be. On the bright side, I don't have to die while trying to push a kid out for three days.
I'm not afraid of death...so long as it never happens to me. But promises of eternal life don't appeal either...I have a cunning plan.... I am not intending to actually, in fact, die. You unlucky buggers will have have to put up with me indefinitely.
Train someone to think and write in your style and you can sustain at least the illusion of immortality on these boards. For all we know, right now you could actually be Transponder 2.0 who replaced Transponder as a poster and has continued the participation.
Train someone to think and write in your style and you can sustain at least the illusion of immortality on these boards. For all we know, right now you could actually be Transponder 2.0 who replaced Transponder as a poster and has continued the participation.
Mystic phd detected the substitution immediately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
I share a ... I don't know, distaste,
I know - it's so frightfully...levelling, don't you think?
I share a ... I don't know, distaste, if not exactly a fear ... of emotion uninformed by intellectual honesty or logic. I do not trust such a configuration. Rather I want intellectual integrity judiciously informed by feeling.
What I think many theists have, is a fear of being wrong and being punished for it. So they seek out authoritarian pronouncements of correctness and embrace them without regard for reason, but rather, only with regard to what they see as the overwhelming power of the authority-figure (a deity, and/or its earthly proxies). That is what drives the devaluing of reason and logic. It's far more important to be your authority's "yes-man" than to risk free thought.
I have no fear whatsoever. What I experience has nothing to fear in it at all. I have intellectual integrity about it as well.
I have no fear whatsoever. What I experience has nothing to fear in it at all. I have intellectual integrity about it as well.
Most of what I said applies to authoritarians, which you are not. So I have no reason to think you are fear-driven. You're way more enamored of personal subjective experience than I am but we have long since agreed to disagree on that score.
I'm not afraid of death...so long as it never happens to me. But promises of eternal life don't appeal either...I have a cunning plan.... I am not intending to actually, in fact, die. You unlucky buggers will have have to put up with me indefinitely.
I noted many posters claimed they are not afraid of death. I believe most are referring to Thanophobia [the un_inhibited fear of death]. Thanatophobia - Phobia Wiki - Wikia
The fact is DNA wise all humans are embedded with an unavoidable inherent fear of death but this fear is fortunately inhibited to a great degree with a sliver of room for fear which is active subliminally to facilitate survival. For example, why humans;
-instinctively avoid walking under ladders,
-wary, feature or cautious in very dark places.
-other subliminal manifestations of real fears
-most notably of all, cling to a belief in God.
I believe it is more appropriate to assert, one don't have thanophobia but has an inherent subliminal impulsive fear of death active within my psyche.
Thus it is critical that theists trace their theistic impulse to this more active inherent subliminal impulsive fear of death active is within my psyche.
As for non-theists, they have a less active inherent subliminal impulse of fear of death active within their psyche. [Note variations on this, i.e. some may have an active impulse but indifferent to theism for various reasons]
It is ... illogical ... to suggest that all human decisions are entirely logical ;-)
Like you, I left theism due to cognitive dissonance. ....
....Turning this around, I wouldn't say converting TO a religious faith is completely devoid of ANY logical component. I think it is MORE devoid, but not entirely. Religious dogma has at least surface plausibility. The interlocking meme-system that Christianity is for example, is successful for a reason: it appeals to intuitive perceptions, on some level it "makes sense" and has reinforcing and compensating beliefs that guard against its own weaknesses. It has a certain internal logic. Kind of like a client once told me when I pointed out the flawed data he was working with "well, the data is the data ... it has its own internal consistency".
Mordant, thank you for such a well thought-out post. It seems, our experiences really do have a lot in common. And yes, now that I am looking at Christian belief/doctrine "from the outside", so to say, I see how illogical most of it really is. A Christ who is so full of love and mercy that he threatens anyone who does not return his love with eternal fire and gnashing of teeth? Believers who pray to God to heal their loved ones from deadly diseases when it is God himself who created every bacteria and virus in existence?... It's just that when you are convinced that the creator of the universe personally takes interest in you, loves you and watches your every step, the logical thinking sort of tends to melt away
When you put it that way, It is so very much like the "No matter what they say" syndrome of those in Love which is in due course very often replaced by the "I can't imagine what I ever saw in you" syndrome when the illusion finally falls away.
It's easier for that to happen of course becasue that illusion is about another person. The religious one is an illusion about onesself.
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I am not intending to actually, in fact, die. You unlucky buggers will have have to put up with me indefinitely.
