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For fun, it should be OK.
But for religious purposes? Even practicing Christians should think twice before doing the Santa thingy because you are starting the kid's religious journey based on a lie.
No, , I'm going to leave it to others. But just observe that the topic was about atheist parents doing the Santa thingy and not Christian parents doing it. But a while back, I posted a view that the Grinch is actually Christian rather than atheist. Thanks for underlining that point.
P.s Please do put your post into the Christian section as we goddless bastards can watch the fun.
And have a very merry humbug, by the way.
We participated pretty half-heartedly - we'd take him for the Santa photos because I knew the "grands" would want them. He also loved Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtles and would play with the action figures, making up his own adventures, and I didn't really see much difference in fantasy figures
I also knew it was just a matter of time being around other kids who had older siblings before the bubble burst*, so it was never really anything but a tiny bubble - no "Santa watches you all year long" (this was before Elf On The Shelf, a frankly CREEPY concept) and "if you don't behave Santa won't bring you any toys." Plus I have never liked sappy Christmas movies. I do like a lot of Christmas music. I'd guess that we'd stopped pretending by the time he started school. Besides, my mother wanted her presents to say they were from HER.
We had fun going out into the woods to cut the tree, had fun putting it up and decorating it, and slowly packages would accumulate underneath. Christmas Eve and Christmas Day we generally had big meals with friends and family - really, there is not much "Santa" in that. Not much religion, either. Only a few people in the family (which was large back then, now it is tiny) were ever really religious.
* I figured it outside for myself in kindergarten when told by older kids that there was no Santa - I was going to prove it by asking for a specific bicycle. I really wanted the purple one with the sparkly tassles, so I told Santa that and then told my mother that I asked for the blue bicycle with the basket on the front. They couldn't figure out why I cried when I got what I asked for. Spoiled child I was, when I was young my parents both worked to support not only us but my father's mother and youngest brother and my mother's mother (who was persuaded by an evangelical Christian neighbor that if she really believed in god and had daily prayer sessions and tithed money to buy more prayers, that insulin wasn't necessary to treat her diabetes - you can guess how that went). The money for that bicycle was a tough thing for them to come up with.
Last edited by PNW-type-gal; 12-24-2016 at 12:15 AM..
Reason: added
No, , I'm going to leave it to others. But just observe that the topic was about atheist parents doing the Santa thingy and not Christian parents doing it. But a while back, I posted a view that the Grinch is actually Christian rather than atheist. Thanks for underlining that point.
P.s Please do put your post into the Christian section as we goddless bastards can watch the fun.
And have a very merry humbug, by the way.
No, I don't consider Atheists as Godless bastards.
May be you have done something good in your life that seems neligible and/or have no signifant value in our eyes, but God liked it, and he blesses you based on that one tiny looking good deed? Who knows, man?
God is merciful and he forgives. So always have good hopes,,,,,, you never know.
This is actually probably the only argument that has given me pause in NOT doing the Santa thing actually.
In biology we inoculate people against infection by pre-infecting them with innocuous strains of similar infections. This gives the body the ability to construct a defense against that infection so that if and when the body is exposed to the "real" thing, it is often ready for it.
A similar thing could be said for using Santa as a more innocuous inoculation against infection from memetic viruses like unsubstantiated religious belief.
When a child comes to realize that the Santa Narrative was one large systematic lie perpetuated not just by parents, but with the collusion of society as a whole (even the evening NEWS media often reports on Santas location for example)..... there is a potential there that they could be inoculated somewhat against similar constructs. And that they might recognize the fallacies that led them to believe nonsense and use application of that knowledge to judge similar fallacies in the future.
However I am not sure this POTENTIAL has been researched enough to bring it anything past being mere hypothesis. And even if it were to be true, the effectiveness is likely to be dependent on HOW the Santa Narrative was presented and implemented, and then how it was removed at the end.
Ah, here we go, 7 pages in, something that coincides with my line of thinking.
I think, that children are pre-disposed to 'magical thinking', not much different than the condition of early humans who lacked the ability to explain all that they observed around them, which, in turn, led to the creation of mythical creatures and 'magic' because they had no other means of explaining them.
Childhood development parallels human development, but at a much faster pace.
I think that kids should be shielded from the harsh realities of life, at least for a little while. They should be allowed to be kids, not having the cares and concerns that adults need to handle...there will be more than enough time for that later.
I have probably mentioned it before- discovering that 'Santa Claus' was a lie was, in fact, the portal to critical thinking, education, and the knowledge that not everything one was told would necessarily be 'true'; it taught me to examine claims made to [attempt to] determine what was factual and based on evidence and what was fanciful and lacked credibility, ultimately leading to atheism.
My parents were not especially bright, nor were they well-educated. But one smart thing they did was to supply us with a bookcase containing a set of encyclopedias and other reference works, mythology, literary classics, and other more modern fiction (including sci-fi). Any time we asked a question, the response was "Look it up." We learned how to find the answers we were seeking, rather than having them simply handed to us. I could go to look one thing up, and then spend hours reading about a bunch of other things.
Eventually, I learned enough to realize that the laws of physics contraindicated the claims made of 'Santa Claus', and learning about various related mythologies explained how this myth came into being. (And, of course, as was noted in another post, I had to make it known that I knew the truth and expose the secret lie.) Naturally, after discovering that I had unwittingly believed this lie, the question arose- "What *else* had I been told, or was being told, was a lie?" And thus began a quest for the truth, and a continuing question of "Is what this person telling me the truth? What is the case for it, and what is the case against it? What evidence is there to support it?" Thus, a skeptical and inquiring mind was created.
After the myth of 'Santa Claus' fell, so too did religion. Along the way I delved into all things 'supernatural' and things like 'aliens' such as those in "Chariots Of The Gods". Having been 'inoculated', I learned to fight off other infections of untruth.
No, I don't consider Atheists as Godless bastards.
Well,we are, I'm telling you
Quote:
May be you have done something good in your life that seems neligible and/or have no signifant value in our eyes, but God liked it, and he blesses you based on that one tiny looking good deed? Who knows, man?
God is merciful and he forgives. So always have good hopes,,,,,, you never know.
Well, you mean it kindly so I I'll roll with the "God is real whether you say so or not" angle .
Well, you mean it kindly so I I'll roll with the "God is real whether you say so or not" angle .
Perhaps another angle to look at it is that, Many things in nature and in our lives are based on probability. Whether God exists or not, is perhaps also a probability. You and I really don't know. However, We WILL know after this life ends.
No one has come back to tell us whether God is real or not BUT we ALL have to go. This is a one way road and there is no u-turns.
And from the looks of it, no one is coming back - never has - and probably never will.
May be you have done something good in your life that seems neligible and/or have no signifant value in our eyes, but God liked it, and he blesses you based on that one tiny looking good deed? Who knows, man?
God is merciful and he forgives. So always have good hopes,,,,,, you never know.
Do you want to talk with Coach Arians about that concept ? Ask him why the Pesky Red Birds missed the playoffs?
OK seriously, we had a talk about Christmas in general today, and odd that I am not the only one who is moving away from Materialism here . In fact, Every Day, minimalism seems like a a healthier and healthier lifestyle. BUT kids do not get that concept, at least not until they are older. Mine are, and they are onboard with it. But for younger kids, I have no problem at all giving gifts, buying toys to donate at Christmas (Although I stick with sporting/exercise equipment or educational toys) The Santa thing allows kids to have something really fun to look forward to. No harm in it, but at some time, the kids are going to find out, and we told them that we did it because it...is...fun !
Our Xmas presents don't say " from Santa" we just pick various characters, real or imaginary. My wife got stuff from Marshall Mathers, Wynona Ryder and Candide. My kids got stuff from Miley Cyrus, Tyler Durden, and Wally Trollman, to name a few.
It totally bypassed the heartbreaking Santa discussion until they were old enough to figure it out themselves.
On that note, my oldest decided that he didn't believe in god anymore about the same time he figured out that Santa was always a hoax. He pointed out himself that the mechanism of belief is the same for both Santa and god. He said that god is just Santa Claus for grownups and when he pointed that out to his grandma he observed that she threw a bigger fit than kids that just heard about Santa. So we did what any responsible parent would, opened a college savings account...
We did, and it was fun. It really is about the only thing we've ever openly "lied" about anything to them (other than also doing the tooth fairy and to some extent the Easter Bunny).
When they were old enough (around 2nd grade-ish) and were old enough to understand that there is no magic / gods / supernatural and started asking us direct questions about why the presents are the ones produced in stores or people not having fireplaces or worse yet us leaving a fire burning all night we told them the truth and joked about how funny it was. As an engineer I even made a machine that dragged a piece of plywood across the roof while making sounds like reindeer hooves running / taking off all by remote controll. We didn't have any presents from Santa when the kids came out and our "Milk and Cookies" wern't gone on the last Christmas I figured my oldest child would still believe. They came out excited, but notably somewhat disapponted. That's when I hit the button and it worked like a champ. I made all the kids run to the far end of our house and look at the roof. They were so enamored by it they didn't even notice I sat down on the new trampoline and were talking to me while I sat on it. Meanwhile my wife quickly got the presents out from behind the couch and put them out and ate the cookies and drank the milk. They didn't notice she was gone for about a minute when we were all outside. They came back in to a Santa-filled tree and was the best Christmas we had. My youngest believed in Santa for 2 more years than the other two because of that day!
Anyway, I did this for a few different reasons.
1. I remember it being fun... trying to figure out if he was real... discussing it with my friends. My parents put a lot of fun stuff into Christmas I remember it fun being a child and it showed me how much they loved me later in life.
2. I didn't want them to be outcasts when they didn't have they didn't have the skills or coping mechanisms to be able to either ignore people making fun of them for their beliefs or wose having my kids act superior because they know the truth before anyone else. In my opinion this occurs differenly with each child but is around the 2nd to 3rd grade (7-8 years old).
With 3 kids all two years apart it was a little difficult not to have the older kids let on that there wasn't a santa!
Bottom line, I am proud that my kids are young atheists and will defend it to the fiber of their being and understand science, the scientific method, and the laws of the nature. They are old enough now to understand that just because they have a minority opinion, it doesn't make them wrong, or bad. They also are old enough not to go around trying to convert everyone to becomming atheists. Before second grade, I don't think they had those types of skills in dealing with a cultural norm here in the U.S.
Again, every child is different as is every family as are locations and different cultural norms in different places. I just think it's better to let them have fun and not be the first parent to tell them there is no Santa.... or the last parent. Cheers
Last edited by AtheistAstroGuy; 02-04-2017 at 06:49 PM..
Reason: Accidently hitting post
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, I'm going to leave it to others. But just observe that the topic was about atheist parents doing the Santa thingy and not Christian parents doing it. But a while back, I posted a view that the Grinch is actually Christian rather than atheist. Thanks for underlining that point. 
