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But I do feel for you atheists when it somes to having religion forced down your throats. I was told by a fellow Christian one time that I would probably go to hell becasue I didn't take his flyer....
Now just imagine that from every religion.
Not only that, but having them question your character because of it. That's the part that gets to me.
have you ever read any of nietzsche's (i would hope that you, as a self-respecting athiest, were at least a little acquainted with him) theories about philosophy in 'beyond good and evil.'
or maybe you disagree with him?
he claims that all philosophy, all argument, comes ultimately from man's desires, his moral (or immoral code), and that to claim that it is reason is idiotic. he then goes on for a number of pages dismissing such philosophers as want to claim that there is logic and reason to their 'universal truths.' he claims that trying to support philosophical mind (including his own as far as i could tell) was merely an attempt to rationally justify something that you already emotionally want to believe is true, and nothing more.
Nietzsche is one of my favorite authors (I’ve read Beyong Good & Evil, The Anti-Christ, Twilight Of Idols, Thus Spoke Zarathustra).
My atheism is not the result of reading Nietzsche because I was already heavily leaning in that direction (away from a belief in god) before ever hearing of Nietzsche.
Nietzsche also said that religion is probably the greatest misfortune to befall mankind. I agree.
My post is that I don’t think christians are sure of their beliefs. Because their beliefs are based on thin air. The OP mentioned reasons. What are those reasons?
Christian beliefs are very fragile. That is why they must regularly come together (church) to mutually affirm their beliefs. Christians often use the label “the truth” when referring to “god’s word”, or anything stated in the bible.
Christians turn a deaf ear and blind eye to anything which may threaten their faith, or become hostile against any other point of view. Religion provides the fog to protect their faith from reality.
Thinking. Isn’t one of christianity’s cornerstones that you cannot possibly know what is good for you, that you should not trust your own mind?
This can be observed on many of the religious posts.
Nietzsche is one of my favorite authors (I’ve read Beyong Good & Evil, The Anti-Christ, Twilight Of Idols, Thus Spoke Zarathustra).
My atheism is not the result of reading Nietzsche because I was already heavily leaning in that direction (away from a belief in god) before ever hearing of Nietzsche.
Nietzsche also said that religion is probably the greatest misfortune to befall mankind. I agree.
My post is that I don’t think christians are sure of their beliefs. Because their beliefs are based on thin air. The OP mentioned reasons. What are those reasons?
Christian beliefs are very fragile. That is why they must regularly come together (church) to mutually affirm their beliefs. Christians often use the label “the truth” when referring to “god’s word”, or anything stated in the bible.
Christians turn a deaf ear and blind eye to anything which may threaten their faith, or become hostile against any other point of view. Religion provides the fog to protect their faith from reality.
Thinking. Isn’t one of christianity’s cornerstones that you cannot possibly know what is good for you, that you should not trust your own mind?
This can be observed on many of the religious posts.
you are making a number of dangerous generalizations, and i realize that this may literally be how you see it, and maybe even how it has actually been in your experience. but there are sufficient rational believers out there to warrant at least the benefit of the doubt. some of history's greatest minds were believers, firm, calculating believers.
and to your question of whether christians have as a cornerston the idea that you cannot know for yourself what is good for you, and therefore cannot trust your own mind: incorrect.
i have heard specific denominations claiming something along these lines, but they do not speak for everyone, and to lump the rest of us in there with them would not only be irresponsibly inaccurate, but show a callous disregard for the feelings and opinions for others.
among the greatest of reasons for our existence, we are here to learn wisdom, to gain experience. as far as i have heard, most churches believe something along these lines. and it is understood that the more temporal (sciences, arts, humanities, etc) knowledge we have in this life, the more we will be able to understand and apply the principles of Christ's atonement in our lives. biblical scholars go to great lengths to find the most accurate translations of scriptures, to study the evolution of words from one language to another, to accurately paint pictures of the historic cultures where the events in the scriptures took place, not to remain comfortable in their 'blindness' but to open their eyes and find hidden insights and applications which have been lost to our generation through normal shifts in culture and language.
anyway, that about runs me dry on that topic. back to nietzsche. while i don't necesarily agree with all of his ideas, he definitely has some truth, and one of them that i appreciate is his claim that mankind attempts to hide moral and emotional attachments behind the guise of reason. i think that this is one of the key ingredients in philosophy in all forms that i have seen in my own life.
all right. i'm done. i don't have a problem with athiests arguing theology, or theologists arguing athiesm. i just wish that people--those on all sides of an argument--would take the time, not even to do their homework (although that would be nice too), but even just to stop, analyze their argument, take a moment, or a sentence in the case of the forum, and remove the emotional judgments, the broad generalizations, and the condescending insults from their head. we could have a lot more reasonable, respectful dialogue if people were willing to treat each other as fellow humans, rather than that athiest (said with a wrinkle in the nose as if there were a bad smell in the air), or that christian.
To answer the OP question....No, it doesn't irk me that they are sure of their beliefs, what irks me is that they feel they have to ram it down my throat. Not everyone rams it down my throat, mind you, just those that do irk me..
I don't go up to a gay person and ram straightness down their throat, there ya go! Their feelings and convictions are just as valid as mine. Those things are personal and not to be forced onto anyone.
Talking about it and learning about it is one thing, I like learning about how others think and function in this world.
Be honest, those of you that do have "issues" with Christians, is part of the problem their absolute certainty that God does exist? Or is really more your feeling that Christians try to force their beliefs on you? Or is it something else entirely?
We all know that you cannot prove a negative, so there's no way you can say with 100% certainty that God does not exist. And I know an atheist will say the same thing about proving God does exist, that it's impossible.
But as a Christian, I can say with all honesty that I am 100% certain that God does exist. The reasons why I (and other Christians) believe this have been discussed ad nauseum on this board so I won't rehash any of those now. I can also say with complete certainty that I will go to heaven when I die and that I will be reunited with my loved ones (those that were saved) who have gone on before me. I'm also sure that every other Christian on here would agree with me about their certainty that God exists.
It's my belief that this is one of the problems atheists have with Christians, this confidence we have in our belief in God. Maybe you interpret is as Christians having a chip on our shoulder or thinking that we are better than you. In all honesty, for me anyway, this is absolutely not true. I'm just a sinner saved by grace and do not see myself as being any better or worse than the next gal.
So again, in all honesty, does it just irritate the heck out of you that Christians are so sure of their belief in God?
It does not "IRK" me what someone else chooses as their path to salvation, heaven, or whatever you want to call it. What does concern me is that it's as if religion and theism should be immune to the same sorts of criticism and critical scrutiny which every other belief and belief system is commonly subjected to. Some people need to believe in God because it gives them a consolation that reality can not. For you to say you are 100% certain that God does exist sounds as if you are overcompensating and attempting to mask your insecurity. For if Christians were indeed 100% certain of God's existence, there would be no need for faith in God.
It does not "IRK" me what someone else chooses as their path to salvation, heaven, or whatever you want to call it. What does concern me is that it's as if religion and theism should be immune to the same sorts of criticism and critical scrutiny which every other belief and belief system is commonly subjected to. Some people need to believe in God because it gives them a consolation that reality can not. For you to say you are 100% certain that God does exist sounds as if you are overcompensating and attempting to mask your insecurity. For if Christians were indeed 100% certain of God's existence, there would be no need for faith in God.
Logic and reason again, Stop it at once,you might start a trend !
I wouldn't say it necessarily irks me that Christians believe in God. I think people should be able to worship or not worship whatever it is that they feel comfortable with.
What DOES irk me is that it seems many feel it necessary that they need to share how important it is that they believe in God. I'm more bothered by those who smugly think they are the only one's with the correct belief and try to force it on you. I'm bothered by those who feel it's of utmost important to put their beliefs into the public sector sponsored by government. I'm extremely bothered by those who try to preach to me as if I've never considered things. Don't knock on my door. Don't tell me about how wonderful it is to love god and how he loves you. I will only retort with sarcasm. I don't care if you feel justified that the Bible tells you to share 'the word.' That's no excuse. It's about having respect for other people and when people diminutively attempt to try and 'convert' me or 'witness' to me I take it as an insult to my rationality. I don't find it rational and I don't see where people get off thinking they are justified to do so. It has nothing to do with Christians believing, or for that matter any religion believing, but it seems that there is some sort of logical fallacy involved where people feel that they are justified to spread their word and subtly put it all over the place.
Build your churches big and sturdy. They are privately funded. Don't build our courthouses, don't build our schools, don't attempt to re-shape other people's minds and beliefs with that same money. I don't care who you are, you have no justification for doing so.
With all of that being said, we are on a religion forum, so I fully expect to encounter people with a wide variety of stances and so when we subject ourselves to an atmosphere like this, in my opinion, anything goes as far as what we are talking about in terms of belief or non-belief.
It's the "real" part of my life that the nuisance of Biblically-induced self-righteousness and boisterousness abhors me. Christians have every right in this country to practice what they believe. However, if your belief requires that you spread the 'word' and induce it into everything, than I think that's just a cop out of an excuse to be obnoxious.
you are making a number of dangerous generalizations, and i realize that this may literally be how you see it, and maybe even how it has actually been in your experience. but there are sufficient rational believers out there to warrant at least the benefit of the doubt. some of history's greatest minds were believers, firm, calculating believers.
and to your question of whether christians have as a cornerston the idea that you cannot know for yourself what is good for you, and therefore cannot trust your own mind: incorrect.
i have heard specific denominations claiming something along these lines, but they do not speak for everyone, and to lump the rest of us in there with them would not only be irresponsibly inaccurate, but show a callous disregard for the feelings and opinions for others.
among the greatest of reasons for our existence, we are here to learn wisdom, to gain experience. as far as i have heard, most churches believe something along these lines. and it is understood that the more temporal (sciences, arts, humanities, etc) knowledge we have in this life, the more we will be able to understand and apply the principles of Christ's atonement in our lives. biblical scholars go to great lengths to find the most accurate translations of scriptures, to study the evolution of words from one language to another, to accurately paint pictures of the historic cultures where the events in the scriptures took place, not to remain comfortable in their 'blindness' but to open their eyes and find hidden insights and applications which have been lost to our generation through normal shifts in culture and language.
anyway, that about runs me dry on that topic. back to nietzsche. while i don't necesarily agree with all of his ideas, he definitely has some truth, and one of them that i appreciate is his claim that mankind attempts to hide moral and emotional attachments behind the guise of reason. i think that this is one of the key ingredients in philosophy in all forms that i have seen in my own life.
all right. i'm done. i don't have a problem with athiests arguing theology, or theologists arguing athiesm. i just wish that people--those on all sides of an argument--would take the time, not even to do their homework (although that would be nice too), but even just to stop, analyze their argument, take a moment, or a sentence in the case of the forum, and remove the emotional judgments, the broad generalizations, and the condescending insults from their head. we could have a lot more reasonable, respectful dialogue if people were willing to treat each other as fellow humans, rather than that athiest (said with a wrinkle in the nose as if there were a bad smell in the air), or that christian.
peace. aaron out.
I agree with this. Can I just add my name to your post?
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