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Yes, indeed. If only to let others now they are not alone, hellbound satanspawn like me have to kep doing this.
One of the most severe problems of the deconvert is that they think they are alone. Religion has a community, organisation, a whole bandobast designed to keep the believer in the fold, and even if they don't believe, pretend they do
Atheists do not have an organisation or a system of keeping atheists disbelieving. Indeed one of the crying needs in the old days was for some support for those who had lost their faith and not only felt alone but under pressure to force them back into faith - just ike the "pray, you'll feel better" and then the accusation of being "bound and determined" to reject God, when in fact despite the most strenuous efforts to keep believing - you just couldn't.
And when we just have o [provide some support, conact and help for the devonvert - we're told we are a Church and a faith..
I know, I was recently in a group discussion and the leader very adamantly insisted that atheism is most definitely a "belief" system. I kept my mouth shut and quite honestly I'm tired of having to do that. But ignorance and arrogance are tough to deal with, no chance of changing these religious fanatics minds. You're right about not being able to force yourself to believe, I've tried and it is impossible once you have seen the "light" of indisputable truth that the only logical stance is either agnosticism/atheism.
It really does boggle the mind how so many have been deceived by the large number of different religions and it seems so clear and obvious to atheists just how ridiculous they all are. Belief in an invisible god should be a considered a delusional mental illness.@
I'd have told him that I didn't want to talk to HIM any more!
Fear not old horse. There are people fighting in your corner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
It's Filly.... And that explains the blood on the carpet.
Haha yeah never been called an old horse before but I'm assuming you're referring to my 2006 join date. And yes it is Filly but the blood is on the mattress
I know, I was recently in a group discussion and the leader very adamantly insisted that atheism is most definitely a "belief" system. I kept my mouth shut and quite honestly I'm tired of having to do that. But ignorance and arrogance are tough to deal with, no chance of changing these religious fanatics minds. You're right about not being able to force yourself to believe, I've tried and it is impossible once you have seen the "light" of indisputable truth that the only logical stance is either agnosticism/atheism.
It really does boggle the mind how so many have been deceived by the large number of different religions and it seems so clear and obvious to atheists just how ridiculous they all are. Belief in an invisible god should be a considered a delusional mental illness.@
A suspicion I have is there are many, many more of us than we think, but you don't see us. Partly because we don't talk about it, in the normal way, but also because of the suffocating social pressure to keep it quiet.
In that absolutely required--watch talk by Tracie Harris on "religious family values" she mentioned how astonished she was to find out that people who she had been talking with on the Net were people she knew. They never dared mention it.
I can imagine a lot of people from No Name city Ohio, all reaching each other on an atheist talk forum and deciding to all meet in an old barn miles from anywhere, and finding they al were all pretend believers in the same church.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-07-2017 at 03:53 PM..
I know, I was recently in a group discussion and the leader very adamantly insisted that atheism is most definitely a "belief" system. I kept my mouth shut and quite honestly I'm tired of having to do that.
Thereby hangs the problem old beast. We keep quiet and say nothing because that is what society say we should do... because we should 'respect' religious beliefs. Why? I say enough. People here call me a militant atheist and I don't have a problem with that at all. If atheists had been more militant in the past then religion might not have the grip that it does today.
Quote:
But ignorance and arrogance are tough to deal with, no chance of changing these religious fanatics minds.
We might not change their minds but we can certainly let them know that we are not going to sit quietly and accept their twaddle and give them 'respect' for ideas which aren't significantly different from the ramblings of a schizophrenic.
“The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame. True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge.”
Belief in an invisible god should be a considered a delusional mental illness.
I agree 100%. Interesting isn't it that if one believes in invisible fairies we DO consider them to be suffering from a delusional mental illness and yet, if one believes in an invisible god we not only consider them to be quite normal...but we are expected to RESPECT their belief in invisible gods!! What an odd we live in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northsouth
Haha yeah never been called an old horse before but I'm assuming you're referring to my 2006 join date.
No old thing! They are simply terms of endearment!
A suspicion I have is there are many, many more of us than we think, but you don't see us. Partly because we don't talk about it, in the normal way, but also because of the suffocating social pressure to keep it quiet.
In that absolutely required--watch talk by Tracie Harris on "religious family values" she mentioned how astonished she was to find out that people who she had been talking with on the Net were people she knew. They never dared mention it.
I can imagine a lot of people from No Name city Ohio, all reaching each other on an atheist talk forum and deciding to all meet in an old barn miles from anywhere, and finding they al were all pretend believers in the same church.
Yes it might be interesting to connect with the atheists in this area, I probably would be surprised at how many there actually are and from what backgrounds they come from. After all, I was once a religious fanatic, turned Universalist, turned agnostic, turned agnostic/athiest.
[quote=Rafius;48080222]Thereby hangs the problem old beast. We keep quiet and say nothing because that is what society say we should do... because we should 'respect' religious beliefs. Why? I say enough. People here call me a militant atheist and I don't have a problem with that at all. If atheists had been more militant in the past then religion might not have the grip that it does today.
You're absolutely right, it's just that in my case I suffer from anxiety and high blood pressure so I try to avoid confrontation if at all possible. If I were in a group dynamic with like-minded people then I may be able to handle that but the one-on-one stuff I have to dodge.
We might not change their minds but we can certainly let them know that we are not going to sit quietly and accept their twaddle and give them 'respect' for ideas which aren't significantly different from the ramblings of a schizophrenic.
Haha "twaddle" seems to be a very appropriate word here. It's funny you mention schizophrenia; my father, who I haven't spoken to in 16 years, is schizophrenic (undiagnosed but he is according to the signs/symptoms) and he is the most arrogant, self-righteous religious fanatic I've ever known personally. Toxic, he is and just like all the other fanatics around here, totally unreasonable and convinced that their god is real.
“The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame. True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge.â€
I like that quote, especially "no right to preach them without challenge".
I agree 100%. Interesting isn't it that if one believes in invisible fairies we DO consider them to be suffering from a delusional mental illness and yet, if one believes in an invisible god we not only consider them to be quite normal...but we are expected to RESPECT their belief in invisible gods!! What an odd we live in.
I know right? Like the OP stated, mind-boggling.
No old thing! They are simply terms of endearment!
It's funny you mention schizophrenia; my father, who I haven't spoken to in 16 years, is schizophrenic (undiagnosed but he is according to the signs/symptoms) and he is the most arrogant, self-righteous religious fanatic I've ever known personally. Toxic, he is and just like all the other fanatics around here, totally unreasonable and convinced that their god is real.
I think it's quite hard for us living here in Europe to appreciate just how bad it is for you guys living in the USA...having to deal with that fanaticism for superstition on a daily basis. Having to hide the fact that you are atheist from your family, from your employer, from your everyday life.
Me I would fight it every day of my life - every hour; every minute. I would fight my family, my friends my employer and if my friends and family shunned me then fine, let them. Who wants friends and family like that anyway. If I lost my job I would fight that too.
Personally, I DO understand what you are going through because I went through it too. I grew up in a small mining village in Wales. The school I went to was strict Welsh Baptist. Believe me there is NOTHING as toxic as Welsh Baptists - and I was the only atheist kid in the school. I got a daily beating, ridicule, head shoved down the toilets, trousers thrown onto the roof...and that was just the teachers!
It must be very frustrating for you and there's not much we can do for you other than offer moral support and urge you to fight the tyranny as so many others have fought tyranny in the past...with far greater risks. So here in Europe, your atheist brothers and sisters are rootin' for ya! You shall overcome...as long as you don't let them get away with it.
Isn't it bizarre that some humans actually believe they alone can demand every other human think and believe as they do...
It is indeed. Though in fact that time has long gone. The next best they can expect (and do) is that the ones who don't think as they do, keep quiet and pretend they believe, if they know what's good for them, and of course the believers can do whatever they want. Make and break laws, influence politics, law, business and education. And if they can't do that, scream blue murder and defy the law playing the martyr.
On the other hand, I don't doubt that humanism -based law and materialist science looks ike some kind of Unithink -requirement. I can understand how it can look ike that, and perhaps it is, but there are two differences; one is the inevitable decision of the society, because it gets the results and the other one doesn't. Religious law isn't fair. Religious alternatives to science are wrong.
People who disagree with that can speak out and don't need to fear the law or social ostracism. All we ask is that they put up a damn' good case, and if they do, we will thank them, as we will have improved our knowledge.
But so far it has been clever, but essentially wrong apologetics, appeals to Faith and such threats as they can get away with these days. So they can't whine that they are being ignored. They certainly can't whine that they are being forced to conform.
I think it's quite hard for us living here in Europe to appreciate just how bad it is for you guys living in the USA...having to deal with that fanaticism for superstition on a daily basis. Having to hide the fact that you are atheist from your family, from your employer, from your everyday life.
Me I would fight it every day of my life - every hour; every minute. I would fight my family, my friends my employer and if my friends and family shunned me then fine, let them. Who wants friends and family like that anyway. If I lost my job I would fight that too.
Personally, I DO understand what you are going through because I went through it too. I grew up in a small mining village in Wales. The school I went to was strict Welsh Baptist. Believe me there is NOTHING as toxic as Welsh Baptists - and I was the only atheist kid in the school. I got a daily beating, ridicule, head shoved down the toilets, trousers thrown onto the roof...and that was just the teachers!
It must be very frustrating for you and there's not much we can do for you other than offer moral support and urge you to fight the tyranny as so many others have fought tyranny in the past...with far greater risks. So here in Europe, your atheist brothers and sisters are rootin' for ya! You shall overcome...as long as you don't let them get away with it.
Respect for superstition...NEVER!
Thanks Rafius, it would definitely be great if I could move to a less religious state or even out of the country but we all know how difficult that would be when you have friends and family surrounding you and at this stage of my life I'm a little too old to be starting over.
That is just horrible what you endured at school in Wales, my paternal side of the family are of Welsh decent so that might explain their fanaticism. As frustrating and lonely as it is, I have just come to terms with the fact that I can't buck the system too much around here if I want to live a calm and peaceful life. Which I very much do. I'll just deal with the religious nonsense and calmly feel comfortable in the fact that I am right and they are wrong.
If I had been an atheist 20 years ago, I probably would have fought tooth and nail against the religious nonsense because I was quite feisty up until 12 years ago. That's why I was such an obnoxious Christian at one point. I always had to have the last word and I would argue my point until everyone else gave up.
But, I just can't do that anymore if I want to live stress and anxiety free - so muttering under my breath and rolling my eyes will have to do so my bp won't go up. It's not ideal, I know, and seems like a cop out but it really isn't - but I'll be more than happy to write papers and provide support for the atheist group I'm hoping to find soon!
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what you endured at school in Wales, my paternal side of the family are of Welsh decent so that might explain their fanaticism. As frustrating and lonely as it is, I have just come to terms with the fact that I can't buck the system too much around here if I want to live a calm and peaceful life. Which I very much do. I'll just deal with the religious nonsense and calmly feel comfortable in the fact that I am right and they are wrong.
