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I think it's quite hard for us living here in Europe to appreciate just how bad it is for you guys living in the USA...having to deal with that fanaticism for superstition on a daily basis. Having to hide the fact that you are atheist from your family, from your employer, from your everyday life.
Me I would fight it every day of my life - every hour; every minute. I would fight my family, my friends my employer and if my friends and family shunned me then fine, let them. Who wants friends and family like that anyway. If I lost my job I would fight that too.
Personally, I DO understand what you are going through because I went through it too. I grew up in a small mining village in Wales. The school I went to was strict Welsh Baptist. Believe me there is NOTHING as toxic as Welsh Baptists - and I was the only atheist kid in the school. I got a daily beating, ridicule, head shoved down the toilets, trousers thrown onto the roof...and that was just the teachers!
It must be very frustrating for you and there's not much we can do for you other than offer moral support and urge you to fight the tyranny as so many others have fought tyranny in the past...with far greater risks. So here in Europe, your atheist brothers and sisters are rootin' for ya! You shall overcome...as long as you don't let them get away with it.
Respect for superstition...NEVER!
when you fight everybody there becomes one common denominator.
Yes it might be interesting to connect with the atheists in this area, I probably would be surprised at how many there actually are and from what backgrounds they come from. After all, I was once a religious fanatic, turned Universalist, turned agnostic, turned agnostic/athiest.
I wish I could recall you as a fervent fundamentalist poster. The way you are now, it's hard to imagine.
I think it would be really good to have a mutual support, identify your area, meet up and dating site -thread (LTBG -friendly of course) here for atheists. Especially the Muslim ones.
"Ex - Muslim man would like to meet uninhibited ex -Christian lady (please send sefies) for talk and maybe more. Has shaved off beard and learned to smile. Will do so myself, if required."
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-13-2017 at 06:13 AM..
I wish I could recall you as a fervent fundamentalist poster. The way you are now, it's hard to imagine.
I think it would be really good to have a mutual support, identify your area, meet up and dating site -thread (LTBG -friendly of course) here for atheists. Especially the Muslim ones.
"Ex - Muslim man would like to meet uninhibited ex -Christian lady (please send sefies) for talk and maybe more. Has shaved off beard and learned to smile. Will do so myself, if required."
Haha LOL that made me laugh. Yeah it's embarrassing now to look back at my old posts as a fundie, that's why I don't do it. I truly am a different person in more ways than just not being a Christian any longer. I have had a few different usernames over the years so most of the really fanatical posts were under those monikers.
I looked up atheist groups in my area and there actually is one, but unfortunately they have absolutely zero events planned. Guess it dwindled down or something, it was disappointing. So, I may try to go to the UU church in the next town over, maybe I can connect with some atheists/agnostics there. I don't know though, it may still be too religious for me but I won't know until I try.
Thanks for the laugh, I am definitely not giving up!
Haha LOL that made me laugh. Yeah it's embarrassing now to look back at my old posts as a fundie, that's why I don't do it. I truly am a different person in more ways than just not being a Christian any longer. I have had a few different usernames over the years so most of the really fanatical posts were under those monikers.
I looked up atheist groups in my area and there actually is one, but unfortunately they have absolutely zero events planned. Guess it dwindled down or something, it was disappointing. So, I may try to go to the UU church in the next town over, maybe I can connect with some atheists/agnostics there. I don't know though, it may still be too religious for me but I won't know until I try.
Thanks for the laugh, I am definitely not giving up!
Do both. You may be able to stimulate a bit of contact, and the UU church (I'd cross my fingers, but I think it's in the list of Forbidden Things in the Atheist Dogmatic Guidance Handbook) is not too religious but just reading passages from Origin of species in Jacobean English and singing "Imagine" in front of a statue of Robert Ingersoll. But you could start a group of friends who don't do religion - that's the thing - not doing atheism - that's why we have no organization and it's like herding cats - we don't DO Atheism - we just don't do religion. Which is why the irreligious theists ...sorry "Agnostics" that attend UU churches, to get their diuted Fix would probably do ok. Which is why I could share a flat with an Agnostic, and could be tolerant that they are slipping away for a quick Drag or Swig every Sunday, when they claim to have Quit. We know it is not as easy for everyone, we understand, and love them as out brothers and sisters in Irreligion, even as we look down upon them as poor, weak creatures.. We hardline atheists shouldn't be snobs, you know
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-13-2017 at 11:15 AM..
Reason: a bit of tweak here..a bi of tweak there...
I know, I was recently in a group discussion and the leader very adamantly insisted that atheism is most definitely a "belief" system. I kept my mouth shut and quite honestly I'm tired of having to do that. But ignorance and arrogance are tough to deal with, no chance of changing these religious fanatics minds. You're right about not being able to force yourself to believe, I've tried and it is impossible once you have seen the "light" of indisputable truth that the only logical stance is either agnosticism/atheism.
It really does boggle the mind how so many have been deceived by the large number of different religions and it seems so clear and obvious to atheists just how ridiculous they all are. Belief in an invisible god should be a considered a delusional mental illness.@
A simple way I have of enlightening these clueless people is just saying this:
"Atheism is a religion like off is a TV channel." That usually solves the confusion without me having to go into a long winded and ultimately futile explanation. It's ironic that people so easily understand a person believing in an entity whose existence has never been proven but are unable to grasp the concept of not believing in it.
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
No more than large numbers of the population claiming that they've experienced fairies would make me change my non-belief about fairies.
Oh no! Its a Mystic/GldnRain acolyte!!!
Really? Because it would change my mind. If I have friends I care about who come running out of the woods and state they saw fairies, and this happens to about 30% of the people in the American population, well, I'd believe in fairies. You wouldn't, though?
Here's the thing. I'm an empirical person, and I believe strongly in science. What I can observe repeatedly, I believe in.
Reading through threads like this makes me feel incredibly lucky - actually, blessed. When I ask for answers, I get them. When I ask for intervention, I get it. LOUD and clear.
For example, a friend and I were at the park and she was worried sick about her preschooler. He seemed to be brushed with Asperger's syndrome, had sensory processing issues, etc. She was kind of distraught and she said several times I wish I knew what doctor or clinic was good - I don't want to spend a lifetime seeking help for him. I really am praying for guidance in leading me to someone who can give us answers and help. Just then, a woman came walking up and said hey remember me? I used to live in this neighborhood! Yes we remembered her. We chatted a little and she said she comes back to town occasionally because her son has Aspergers and Sensory Defensiveness and there is the best clinic she's ever found, with an OT that has changed her son's life. So they come back into town for appointments because it's worth it.
I haven't changed one tiny detail of that incident, and I could name literally 100 more I've experienced that are just as jaw dropping.
So - why wouldn't I believe there's someone hearing and responding to my prayers? I would have to be completely stupid not to.
But I do understand that not everyone experiences this. I say that humbly, not snarky.
A simple way I have of enlightening these clueless people is just saying this:
"Atheism is a religion like off is a TV channel." That usually solves the confusion without me having to go into a long winded and ultimately futile explanation. It's ironic that people so easily understand a person believing in an entity whose existence has never been proven but are unable to grasp the concept of not believing in it.
That may be better than "bald is not a hair colour", as the last time that one was used, there was all sorts of chop -logic quibbling about it's a 'hair style' and that supposedly makes atheism a religion.
Really? Because it would change my mind. If I have friends I care about who come running out of the woods and state they saw fairies, and this happens to about 30% of the people in the American population, well, I'd believe in fairies. You wouldn't, though?
Here's the thing. I'm an empirical person, and I believe strongly in science. What I can observe repeatedly, I believe in.
Reading through threads like this makes me feel incredibly lucky - actually, blessed. When I ask for answers, I get them. When I ask for intervention, I get it. LOUD and clear.
For example, a friend and I were at the park and she was worried sick about her preschooler. He seemed to be brushed with Asperger's syndrome, had sensory processing issues, etc. She was kind of distraught and she said several times I wish I knew what doctor or clinic was good - I don't want to spend a lifetime seeking help for him. I really am praying for guidance in leading me to someone who can give us answers and help. Just then, a woman came walking up and said hey remember me? I used to live in this neighborhood! Yes we remembered her. We chatted a little and she said she comes back to town occasionally because her son has Aspergers and Sensory Defensiveness and there is the best clinic she's ever found, with an OT that has changed her son's life. So they come back into town for appointments because it's worth it.
I haven't changed one tiny detail of that incident, and I could name literally 100 more I've experienced that are just as jaw dropping.
So - why wouldn't I believe there's someone hearing and responding to my prayers? I would have to be completely stupid not to.
But I do understand that not everyone experiences this. I say that humbly, not snarky.
No, I would not believe in the claims about fairies, no more than I believed in claims about Ghosts, Yeti/Bigfoot, the loch ness monster or alien abductions.
While multiple witness accounts or at east a cumulative record might make me take note, I would require convincing evidence. And in fact, as is the case about every "Supernatural" claim I can recall other than Balll lightning, they have failed to be substantiated if not shown to be the result of human illusion, delusion and misperception.
I am well aware of the human tendency to see signs, patterns and portents in everything. Do you think I haven't found myself "Noting" that the thing I want can't be found, though I have been tripping over the bloody thing all week? That whichever side of the road I am waiting, three of the buses go past on the other side before mine turns up That there were times I thought I had the slats kicked out of my life, and yet somehow it all came fine in the end, and that I could have easily bamboozled myself into thinking that the Flying Spaghetti Monster was looking out for me, especially if I made the chicken noodles with coconut milk.
But I do understand that not everyone knows how such experiences can fool one, and I say that as friendly and hopefully helpful information, and not snarkily.
Really? Because it would change my mind. If I have friends I care about who come running out of the woods and state they saw fairies, and this happens to about 30% of the people in the American population, well, I'd believe in fairies. You wouldn't, though?
No I wouldn't. If your friends that you care about came running out of the woods claiming that that they had seen Brahma, would you then believe in Brahma?
Quote:
Reading through threads like this makes me feel incredibly lucky - actually, blessed. When I ask for answers, I get them. When I ask for intervention, I get it. LOUD and clear.
Hindus claim that they do too. Will you then accept the existence of Ganesha?
Quote:
For example, a friend and I were at the park and she was worried sick about her preschooler. He seemed to be brushed with Asperger's syndrome, had sensory processing issues, etc. She was kind of distraught and she said several times I wish I knew what doctor or clinic was good - I don't want to spend a lifetime seeking help for him. I really am praying for guidance in leading me to someone who can give us answers and help. Just then, a woman came walking up and said hey remember me? I used to live in this neighborhood! Yes we remembered her. We chatted a little and she said she comes back to town occasionally because her son has Aspergers and Sensory Defensiveness and there is the best clinic she's ever found, with an OT that has changed her son's life. So they come back into town for appointments because it's worth it.
...and...your point is?
Quote:
I haven't changed one tiny detail of that incident, and I could name literally 100 more I've experienced that are just as jaw dropping.
How many amputees do you think have prayed to get missing limbs back and still haven't got them.
Quote:
So - why wouldn't I believe there's someone hearing and responding to my prayers? I would have to be completely stupid not to.
OK. Here's a way to shut us all up. Ask your god to eliminate all forms of cancer by mid-day tomorrow. We'll wait.
Quote:
But I do understand that not everyone experiences this.
When we stop anthropomorphizing, and have less need to be "right" on either side, the conversation opens to greater discovery.
There is no limit to the "stunning" way humans think.
It spans the absurd to the magnificent.
Perhaps what's important is to not get stuck in any one perspective for too long, lol.
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Yeah it's embarrassing now to look back at my old posts as a fundie, that's why I don't do it. I truly am a different person in more ways than just not being a Christian any longer. I have had a few different usernames over the years so most of the really fanatical posts were under those monikers. 
that attend UU churches, to get their diuted Fix would probably do ok. Which is why I could share a flat with an Agnostic, and could be tolerant that they are slipping away for a quick Drag or Swig every Sunday, when they claim to have Quit. We know it is not as easy for everyone, we understand, and love them as out brothers and sisters in Irreligion, even as we look down upon them as poor, weak creatures.. We hardline atheists shouldn't be snobs, you know
@
