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The game atheists play is to pretend that they occupy some intellectual higher ground.....
Well let's face it bro. We're not the ones that believe in talking animals or global floods.
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The game atheists play is to pretend that they occupy some intellectual higher ground, one where they make the rules, they decide what constitutes evidence, and they decide what quantum of evidence is sufficient. The atheist position is always the "default" position, the only one a "rational" and "critical" thinker could hold. Religion - oh, that's strictly for credulous magical thinkers. The beauty of Plantinga (and William Lane Craig) is that he exposes this silliness for what it is.
Yeah right! Plantinga. This is the guy that says:
'Asking me why I believe in God is like asking me why I believe in the past or why do I believe there are other people. I can't give any proof that there has been a past or a proof that that there are other people.....'
Huh? What's that Alvin? You can't give any proof that other people exist?? You need to get out more mate!
...and this '...leading philosopher of our time, one whose academic and professional credentials are impeccable and whose work receives the attention it deserves even in secular circles'.. justifies his belief in his god, not with any profound thinking...but by saying, '....it just seems right to me that there is such a person.' It also appears that the astounding evidence that leads him to god belief is reading the Bible and...looking at tree tops! Brilliant!
You can find this deep, intellectual thinking from this 'academic giant' in the second minute of this...
Mystic and I looked together as a post of Alvin's about atheism. It was clear that he didn't understand it any more than the average theist apologist, and apparently didn't listen to what atheists themselves say about and never bothered to look. He's no doubt good a his job, but it's old story-Godfaith is skewing his reasoning.
He's been found pushing Creationism at Stanford university, too. And if, as I suspect, he wrote the article on atheism in the Stanford Encyclopaedia, it should be removed, and so should he.
He's been found pushing Creationism at Stanford university, too. And if, as I suspect, he wrote the article on atheism in the Stanford Encyclopaedia, it should be removed, and so should he.
Yes. It's odd isn't it...how theists see people like Platinga and Lane Craig as having something intelligent to say simply because they have conned their way into some university or other. It must be the same as thinking that someone on a 'creation' video really is a scientist... because he is wearing a white lab-coat!!
Well let's face it bro. We're not the ones that believe in talking animals or global floods.
Yeah right! Plantinga. This is the guy that says:
'Asking me why I believe in God is like asking me why I believe in the past or why do I believe there are other people. I can't give any proof that there has been a past or a proof that that there are other people.....'
Huh? What's that Alvin? You can't give any proof that other people exist?? You need to get out more mate!
...and this '...leading philosopher of our time, one whose academic and professional credentials are impeccable and whose work receives the attention it deserves even in secular circles'.. justifies his belief in his god, not with any profound thinking...but by saying, '....it just seems right to me that there is such a person.' It also appears that the astounding evidence that leads him to god belief is reading the Bible and...looking at tree tops! Brilliant!
You can find this deep, intellectual thinking from this 'academic giant' in the second minute of this...
Sure I can. How about poverty, starvation and all incurable disease disappearing overnight together with a sign painted on every single door of every single house on the planet - at the same moment- saying something like...'I, Jesus the Christian man-god have done this.'
That would convince me and I dare say, everyone else on the planet too.
Yes...and we all know what a useless and idiotic thing 'faith' is. You, like all theists, think that faith is a good thing! Something to be looked up to. Something to be applauded...but it isn't. In fact it is the most idiotic, ludicrous and dumb-headed thing that one could EVER accept as a valid way of believing something... and ironically, you recognise that in your everyday life because, in your everyday life there is not one thing, NOT ONE SINGLE THING, that you would, even remotely, not even for one minute, rely on as being true - on nothing more than 'faith'....other than your god belief.
Same for Odin and his followers. Why should I believe you and not them?
Well we know that you start with confirmation bias with regard to your god when the logical thing would be to start with the default position of non-belief, just like you start with non-belief regarding a lion living under your bed - because there is no evidence for one being there. You do that with no problem whatsoever don't you? Yet if you really, really wanted there to be a lion living under your bed, you'd be telling people that there was one there - but that it was invisible to all but those who really wanted to genuinely find the lion. And you know my friend. I you really did manage to convince some deluded soul that there was a lion there, that fool would be out in the streets next day swearing that you had a lion under your bed.
That is absolute rubbish and it's a well know cop-out that theists use to excuse the fact that they don't have any proof or evidence.
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Again, absolute balderdash because your god would have methods that would leave us in no doubt...such as I described above.
Yes, that's true. Once you convince yourself that something is true then you will see signs of it's 'truth' everywhere and join the believers camp..but that works for all the other gods too - so how do we know that those gods aren't as real as yours. It even works for leprechauns or mermaids you know!
Ah right! So you are saying that god belief has nothing to do with truth and everything to do with which particular flavour of god that you like!!
...but how do you know you are correct? Supposing I read the Vedas. I analyse the holy text, understand the message, decide that it's true and conclude that Ganesh is the one true god? Why would you say that I'm wrong and you are right. You see, what you are telling us to do is exactly what we did do. We examined the theist claims. We analysed the claimed 'evidence' and we analysed the holy texts and... we found them to be false. Why are we wrong and you right?
Again, it's nothing more than deciding that it's true for no other reason than...you really, really do WANT it to be.
Why am I not surprised!
Yes. That's exactly what atheists do. So, explain to me again, why aren't you atheist?
Religion and faith has been around for what? Tens and thousands of years?
Please use simple basic logic to ponder on this question.
If there was an evidence/proof then it would've been out in the open by now for everyone to see. It's been tens and thousands of years. Where the heck is the evidence ??????
But since there is no evidence, it has never been presented.
So it's an oxymoronic approach to demand an evidence because you already know, there isn't one.
And why there isn't one?
As stated before,
1 - You can't define the evidence, and you are not equipped with the knowledge validate it.
2 - Believing in God faith. And faith by definition is not based on evidence.
But that's perhaps not the issue here.
Look at these two points below.
A- I am a believer and you don't seem like to approve my choice.
B - I am telling you that if you are someone who denies the existence of God based on the logic that, "because there is no evidence" - then I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT. You can and you should remain an Athesit as much as you want. However, the logic you are using to arrive at your conclusion is not the logic used by those who have faith. Simple as that.
But you don't seem to happy either way.
I'm completely satisfied with this. You are being honest and fair. I think your faith is irrational and misguided, but you are free to have it. Problem is, most religious are not honest about their faith. I and others take objection to those that make bold claims with no evidence.
If someone believes Spider-Man is real, so what? If they claim it as real, I want evidence. Is this not fair? Am I under obligation to believe them without it? Yet, most Christians will claim it was my choice to burn in hell, which is just downright ignorant nonsense.
This just boggles my mind how such a large percentage of the population goes to church to worship a God that doesn't exist and shows absolutely no signs of existing. Its just so primitive. Realistically it seems like once humans became smart enough to build things, have reasoning skills, write, speak, create civilizations, we would have reached the level of intelligence to realize there is no God. I just don't get it.
Then you don't understand how reality works.
Before you shut me out for saying that, what I mean is, the more strongly you believe in something, the more likely
It's like confirmation bias but the other way around. The "God" in this case is human ability of attraction (or what is called Law of Attraction). Imagine if you will someone saying blackberries don't exist. Not to compare blackberries too deeply to God, but how likely are you to seek out blackberries if you have been told they don't exist, and subconsciously think they don't exist. It stands to reason that even given a chance of randomly finding blackberries would be greatly diminished if your basic attitude is "what's the point" and give up. On the other hand, if you have been told "...and blackberries are soooo good, I just can't get enough of them," you seek and seek and seek until you find some. Likewise the same for God, they will not stop until they have their proof. It may not be your proof, but it is proof enough for them.
Why does this work? It isn't just trial and error stuff. It's because our understanding of what human beings are is backwards. We are made up of subatomic particles largely traveling at high speeds. Energy. Like a matroska, around these energy particles, are atomic matter then solid matter, our bodies, and then around this the visible universe. Living things create objects and events around them, and those things change according to their perception. This is how inventions work actually. I have a picture in my head of a "pink pineapple". This was a brand of surf clothing, and I believe a monogram company. Oh, and according to wikipedia, a company that made hentai videos. Essentially, it had no presence at all in the world, except in people's minds. Now, some genetic engineer was like "I want pink pineapples." And so they are.
So bottom line: you who do not believe in God, would never see God. Which is probably fine by you. When people tell you about God, they might as well be trying to convince you that unicorns exist. Which, btw, they totally do. They just faked that narwhal thing so that ppl would stop hunting.
Before you shut me out for saying that, what I mean is, the more strongly you believe in something, the more likely
It's like confirmation bias but the other way around. The "God" in this case is human ability of attraction (or what is called Law of Attraction). Imagine if you will someone saying blackberries don't exist. Not to compare blackberries too deeply to God, but how likely are you to seek out blackberries if you have been told they don't exist, and subconsciously think they don't exist. It stands to reason that even given a chance of randomly finding blackberries would be greatly diminished if your basic attitude is "what's the point" and give up. On the other hand, if you have been told "...and blackberries are soooo good, I just can't get enough of them," you seek and seek and seek until you find some. Likewise the same for God, they will not stop until they have their proof. It may not be your proof, but it is proof enough for them.
Why does this work? It isn't just trial and error stuff. It's because our understanding of what human beings are is backwards. We are made up of subatomic particles largely traveling at high speeds. Energy. Like a matroska, around these energy particles, are atomic matter then solid matter, our bodies, and then around this the visible universe. Living things create objects and events around them, and those things change according to their perception. This is how inventions work actually. I have a picture in my head of a "pink pineapple". This was a brand of surf clothing, and I believe a monogram company. Oh, and according to wikipedia, a company that made hentai videos. Essentially, it had no presence at all in the world, except in people's minds. Now, some genetic engineer was like "I want pink pineapples." And so they are.
So bottom line: you who do not believe in God, would never see God. Which is probably fine by you. When people tell you about God, they might as well be trying to convince you that unicorns exist. Which, btw, they totally do. They just faked that narwhal thing so that ppl would stop hunting.
The analogy would be, that someone gets the idea (based on insinctive preferences in taste) that a juicy sweet berry would be great. So he and a few friends go looking for them
They find some bushes.
'Blackberry bushes! We just have to search a bit more..or wait"
"Those are Juniper bushes."
"Ha!. So the books say!"
They go on looking
And looking
And looking.
And in the end the fellow is munching away a berries that nobody else can see and saying how much the others are missing out on the blackberries he's plucking from the bushes.
Yes, it is strange in the 21st century, yet (and we're not just talking about some intelligence, but one wrapped up in absurd, often tyrannical myth).
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