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This is, to me, why theism, especially fundamentalism, is so damaging to developing children and young adults. And why freedom of thought early on is so terribly important.
I liked your essay. Well said.
As for the last part, I've raised my kids with no religious affiliation whatsoever. I caught a lot of hell from one of my in-laws: "What do you mean you won't baptize them!? They'll go to purgatory if they die!" I even had to deal with the awkward situation of her sneaking holy water into my house to do a proxy baptism or something. Who knows, maybe she managed it another time when I wasn't looking.
While I do take a little pride in how we might be walking by a church and the kids hear the church bell and they are genuinely curious why people go in there to sit for an hour. But I take more pride in knowing that I'm teaching them why we do good things - because it is the right thing to do, as opposed to because of the fear of fire and brimstone from some unknown deity.
Unfortunately, I think they'll eventually face the same issues I have. I can try to artfully dodge the "where do you go to church" question that residents of my area always feel is appropriate conversation. I'm aware of how people react to atheists. But my kids are innocent and don't know any better. They've been met, so far, with a simple 'shrug' from other kids when this topic comes up and they go about their business playing whatever games they are playing. But, I do have a small fear that once these other indoctrinated children come to accept that those without religion are... I don't know... demon spawn(?) that their association, otherwise great, with my kids will diminish.
We've already faced some non-religious persecution for our lack of belief. That's a whole other story that I don't want to get into. But, needless to say, one of my kids was singled out and essentially bum rushed out of a sort of institution due to not being a Christian. And there's no real recourse that I've found.
and they want to know why there is an atheist campaign and act so hurt and persecuted. We just do not have this 'Christians only' mentality here; it really doesn't matter what your religion is or whether you don't have one (though New atheism is a but of a curiosity), doesn't matter. If you want to join, you join, and nobody even mentions religion.
It is not like that at all in the US, and this is wrong, and needs to be changed.
Similar feelings here. Marriage, or at least an exclusive romantic relationship, was paramount, and what I used to see as what one researcher termed a "vital marriage" -- one in which the relationship is unambiguously hands down the greatest joy of both parties to the arrangement, and which is marred by little to no conflict --
chopped for space.
expectations set my inerrantist, hyper-idealistic notions of reality like fundamentalist Christianity, serve as my baseline for perception, and everything is a correction in relation to that. I can't see to truly "inhabit" a more realistic set of expectations, I can only correct for the faulty expectations.
This is, to me, why theism, especially fundamentalism, is so damaging to developing children and young adults. And why freedom of thought early on is so terribly important.
A Truly beautiful statement of belief based conversion and awakening. The veil was lifted and light shined on with amazing grace. I love the part about saving the children ... just so, well, heart felt. Your crusade to convert, err I mean, help us all is so righteous. lmao.
i wonder how much of others freedom and liberty you will sacrifice to save the children?
As for the last part, I've raised my kids with no religious affiliation whatsoever. I caught a lot of hell from one of my in-laws: "What do you mean you won't baptize them!? They'll go to purgatory if they die!" I even had to deal with the awkward situation of her sneaking holy water into my house to do a proxy baptism or something. Who knows, maybe she managed it another time when I wasn't looking.
While I do take a little pride in how we might be walking by a church and the kids hear the church bell and they are genuinely curious why people go in there to sit for an hour. But I take more pride in knowing that I'm teaching them why we do good things - because it is the right thing to do, as opposed to because of the fear of fire and brimstone from some unknown deity.
Unfortunately, I think they'll eventually face the same issues I have. I can try to artfully dodge the "where do you go to church" question that residents of my area always feel is appropriate conversation. I'm aware of how people react to atheists. But my kids are innocent and don't know any better. They've been met, so far, with a simple 'shrug' from other kids when this topic comes up and they go about their business playing whatever games they are playing. But, I do have a small fear that once these other indoctrinated children come to accept that those without religion are... I don't know... demon spawn(?) that their association, otherwise great, with my kids will diminish.
We've already faced some non-religious persecution for our lack of belief. That's a whole other story that I don't want to get into. But, needless to say, one of my kids was singled out and essentially bum rushed out of a sort of institution due to not being a Christian. And there's no real recourse that I've found.
My grandchildren are growing up in the Bible Belt, in the not-so-deep South but deep enough that there is a lot of social signaling around what church you go to, etc.
My daughter has been home schooling her children, which insulates the children from some of these hazards and socializes them with like minded families through a cooperative of other unbelieving home schooling parents. I have not encouraged this, as I see downsides to it as well. I guess I have reluctantly come to see the public school system as a two-sided coin, dehumanizing children for non-conformity and yet teaching them how to cope with people's suckage. Growing up as I did in fundamentalism, the public schools were also my only contact with real people in all their glory and ignominy, and so I have mixed feelings about the sheltered nature of my grandchildren's upbringing. I suppose in the end one would have to be omniscient to even know what the right thing to do is.
My daughter has been home schooling her children, which insulates the children from some of these hazards and socializes them with like minded families through a cooperative of other unbelieving home schooling parents.
I currently live in the Deep South. Most home schoolers in my area do it for religious reasons; specifically because the education offered in schools here isn't religious enough and they want to isolate them from other kids that don't share their religious beliefs.
Hearing about home schooled kids doing it to isolate their children FROM other religious kids just sounds wild. I wasn't expecting that.
Yeah, I'm not a proponent of home schooling for any religious reason. The kids are ill-prepared to deal with people that are different than them. I worked with a guy that home schooled his kids all the way up until high school. By the time the kids got to college, one of them dropped out and moved back home since he couldn't deal with people that thought differently than he did. And the other eschewed his religion altogether.
I don't know how common that is, but logically it seems to make sense. The lack of socialization and learning to live with people different from you is key in this world.
For those of you who went from faith to atheism, what was the transition like for you? And how are you now?
Your description of your journey into atheism made me chuckle because it sounds like mine, sort of. I started out as a brainwashed holy roller, was raised (both sides) either Pentecostal, Baptist or Methodist depending on which church my Dad decided to take us to that Sunday. My Mom's side of the family were all Pentecostal Holiness, speaking in tongues and the whole nine yards.
I began my journey right here on C-D several years ago. First I was arguing with atheists and other "heathens" as I saw them, then I started actually listening to them. I went from a staunch Christian to questioning, then came Universalism, agnosticism and then agnostic/atheism. I'm still working through the horrors of being raised Christian and dealing with extremely religious family and friends. Most of my family is unaware of my disbelief for obvious reasons and the friends who do know think I am just being "stubborn" and all you have to do is just "believe" and you're golden.
It is unbelievable to me how stubborn and pig-headed my friends are being and I believe the one cousin who knows about my disbelief is actually shunning me. I'm evil and a devil-worshiper - that's what people around here actually believe about atheists. They don't even really know what atheism is.
Now I have an internal struggle, still trying to sift through the ashes of my belief. Why can't anyone really explain why we're here? I don't mean made up stories like what are in the buy-bull, I mean proof not fairy tales!! Why can't these religious freaks understand that there IS NO PROOF! Why do I find myself sometimes wishing they are right and then on the flip side knowing they are SO wrong? It is quite a conundrum that obviously takes years to reconcile.
No worries OP, logic and common sense always wins when it comes to atheism. So we don't have all the answers - neither do "they". It's us against them, and imo we are winning. We may be in the minority but that is changing as we type our opinions and woes. People are disillusioned with religion and it's starting to show. I wish I lived in an area that was not so overwhelmingly religious but I don't so got to make the best of the situation.
That means keeping quiet most of the time but speaking up when it's appropriate and I have an audience that will listen and not argue. Speaking of arguing, I will leave you with this little nugget - on one particular Sunday years ago my Father took us to a Baptist church. He disagreed with whatever the Pastor was saying, stood up in the middle of the service and began to argue with him....oh yes. I was a teenager and my brother poked me because I was sleeping and when I came to I started to slink down into the pew from embarrassment. The Pastor invited us to leave so the entire large congregation watched us as we left the building.
He also did the same thing at the Methodist church. So you can see why I struggle with all this, but mostly now I know I am on the right track. Don't feel bad if you have become disillusioned with humanity in general, we all have. You'll be fine.
Early on this felt a little like a fish out of water. I still believe there might be a deity that looked over me, but I quickly was reminded that the real world is random and shows no sign of a supernatural guidance.
Along with this initially, I was a little angry that I had been blinded from the truth and reality by indoctrination. With the rose colored glasses off I could see just how absurd and contemptible the god I believed in was.
It took a while to re-examine my world view. How might this affect my decision making, my marriage and the relationships with my grown children and friends. Like most atheists, I keep my opinions subdued.
It wasn’t difficult coming to terms with accepting that my life is limited and that I will likely die into unconsciousness. I’m somewhat concerned that my grown daughters may end up missing out on this precious life while living for a mythical afterlife. I regret knowing my grandchildren are being indoctrinated the same I was. I hope to be a positive influence towards them realizing reality in the future. In order to maintain normality, I have elected not to interfere against their parental upbringing.
Your description of your journey into atheism made me chuckle because it sounds like mine, sort of. I started out as a brainwashed holy roller, was raised (both sides) either Pentecostal, Baptist or Methodist depending on which church my Dad decided to take us to that Sunday. My Mom's side of the family were all Pentecostal Holiness, speaking in tongues and the whole nine yards.
I began my journey right here on C-D several years ago. First I was arguing with atheists and other "heathens" as I saw them, then I started actually listening to them. I went from a staunch Christian to questioning, then came Universalism, agnosticism and then agnostic/atheism. I'm still working through the horrors of being raised Christian and dealing with extremely religious family and friends. Most of my family is unaware of my disbelief for obvious reasons and the friends who do know think I am just being "stubborn" and all you have to do is just "believe" and you're golden.
It is unbelievable to me how stubborn and pig-headed my friends are being and I believe the one cousin who knows about my disbelief is actually shunning me. I'm evil and a devil-worshiper - that's what people around here actually believe about atheists. They don't even really know what atheism is.
Now I have an internal struggle, still trying to sift through the ashes of my belief. Why can't anyone really explain why we're here? I don't mean made up stories like what are in the buy-bull, I mean proof not fairy tales!! Why can't these religious freaks understand that there IS NO PROOF! Why do I find myself sometimes wishing they are right and then on the flip side knowing they are SO wrong? It is quite a conundrum that obviously takes years to reconcile.
No worries OP, logic and common sense always wins when it comes to atheism. So we don't have all the answers - neither do "they". It's us against them, and imo we are winning. We may be in the minority but that is changing as we type our opinions and woes. People are disillusioned with religion and it's starting to show. I wish I lived in an area that was not so overwhelmingly religious but I don't so got to make the best of the situation.
That means keeping quiet most of the time but speaking up when it's appropriate and I have an audience that will listen and not argue. Speaking of arguing, I will leave you with this little nugget - on one particular Sunday years ago my Father took us to a Baptist church. He disagreed with whatever the Pastor was saying, stood up in the middle of the service and began to argue with him....oh yes. I was a teenager and my brother poked me because I was sleeping and when I came to I started to slink down into the pew from embarrassment. The Pastor invited us to leave so the entire large congregation watched us as we left the building.
He also did the same thing at the Methodist church. So you can see why I struggle with all this, but mostly now I know I am on the right track. Don't feel bad if you have become disillusioned with humanity in general, we all have. You'll be fine.
good to hear from you NorthSouth, one of our few success stories! Though i can't recall you as a rabid religionist. But you mention a particular problem, arguing, not listening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55
Early on this felt a little like a fish out of water. I still believe there might be a deity that looked over me, but I quickly was reminded that the real world is random and shows no sign of a supernatural guidance.
Along with this initially, I was a little angry that I had been blinded from the truth and reality by indoctrination. With the rose colored glasses off I could see just how absurd and contemptible the god I believed in was.
It took a while to re-examine my world view. How might this affect my decision making, my marriage and the relationships with my grown children and friends. Like most atheists, I keep my opinions subdued.
It wasn’t difficult coming to terms with accepting that my life is limited and that I will likely die into unconsciousness. I’m somewhat concerned that my grown daughters may end up missing out on this precious life while living for a mythical afterlife. I regret knowing my grandchildren are being indoctrinated the same I was. I hope to be a positive influence towards them realizing reality in the future. In order to maintain normality, I have elected not to interfere against their parental upbringing.
In fact i wish all the 'agnostics' or those who think or feel that there is some kind of Mind looking after them, were like this. So many of them are as venomously hostile towards atheists as Bible -literalist creationists.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,551 posts, read 81,085,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW-type-gal
I'm not sure why you think marriage has no meaning without religion. I didn't marry in a church or as part of a church, but I am married (36 years) and monogamous. Religion had nothing to do with it.
Same here, now going on year 44 of marriage. I had no transition, however. I was raised Catholic but never bought into it. I stopped going to church as soon as I had a license and car at 16. My Sunday mornings were spent fishing or ar a local restaurant.
good to hear from you NorthSouth, one of our few success stories! Though i can't recall you as a rabid religionist. But you mention a particular problem, arguing, not listening.
She has had several screen names. The fundy one was DOTL (Day of the Lord).
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