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I'm in the city today, Cruithne. (Work-related.) I love Manhattan at Christmastime. The whole place is decorated.
I remember that. I attended Manhattan School of Music in the late '60's and lived in Flatbush. The city was beautiful. I used to love those bakeries with the big sugar cookies, frosted half vanilla and half chocolate. Do they still have those?
I remember that. I attended Manhattan School of Music in the late '60's and lived in Flatbush. The city was beautiful. I used to love those bakeries with the big sugar cookies, frosted half vanilla and half chocolate. Do they still have those?
Of course! Black and White Cookies are a New York institution.
My daughter used to date a guy from Germany. He said over there, the cookies are called "Americans".
Of course! Black and White Cookies are a New York institution.
My daughter used to date a guy from Germany. He said over there, the cookies are called "Americans".
I dated a black civil rights activist named Wallace Davies, and we said that was our cookie. We'd walk down the street and little kids would say, "ooh, there's a black man with a white lady." It was unusual. He was a fine person.
I dated a black civil rights activist named Wallace Davies, and we said that was our cookie. We'd walk down the street and little kids would say, "ooh, there's a black man with a white lady." It was unusual. He was a fine person.
Yes, my sister (we are white) has been with her black husband since 1975. Back then people stared at them when they went out to dinner or walked through the mall.
She told me they sat on the couch and cried together the night Obama was elected at the idea that a man like my niece could now be elected President.
Don't know what she thinks about the cookies. I am going to bring her some!
Yes, my sister (we are white) has been with her black husband since 1975. Back then people stared at them when they went out to dinner or walked through the mall.
She told me they sat on the couch and cried together the night Obama was elected at the idea that a man like my niece could now be elected President.
Don't know what she thinks about the cookies. I am going to bring her some!
If Santa and Frosty being imaginary don't spoil the fund of Christmas, then why should the Nativity Story?
Unfortunately for some people Santa not being real does spoil the fun of Christmas. Not everyone clearly - but some people do report a level of disillusionment they got as a child which never went away and still prevents them from really enjoying the period as much as their peers.
It is one of the plethora of reasons why I do not do the "Santa" thing with my own children (now 4 and 8) but find other more reality based reasons to engage them with the holiday that will not be taken away from them in a few short years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55
I bet you are thinking, why would you care about hearing Christmas music?” She said yep. I told her you don’t have to celebrate the religious aspect of Christmas. I enjoy the pagan parts. I also said that I miss hearing the Grinch song.
I could be ruined financially if people knew how I really felt: I teach, I have a retail business, and do a lot of freelancing (at churches), especially this time of year.
You are certainly not alone in that trap. I have a lot of sympathy for people in it - some of them even deeper than you. "The Clergy Project" for example was established by some wonderfully caring and giving and kindly people to support members of the Clergy who have lost - or never had - religious faith but they can not come clean or honest in that regard or it would ruin them.
After all not many of the "skills" of that line of work are easily transferable to the rest of the job market. The business model of essentially selling lies to children and keeping them buying those lies into adulthood - is not really readily marketable anywhere else. And in fact there are stories of members of the clergy even taking second jobs stacking super market shelves recently because the business model of exploiting the gullible and vulnerable is moving on or disappearing. The monopoly at the moment belongs to the "alternative medicine" market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraZetterberg153
Dawkins and his ilk encourage atheists to come out, but that's easy for them to say, with their tenured positions at liberal universities and their wealth garnered from their books and public appearances.
Agreed - their well meant encouragements assume a tipping point of people coming out which will change the zeitgeist to the point where people like you will not suffer. But they do not focus too much on the interim period where the pioneers in that coming out will suffer greatly.
Thankfully in other areas - like homosexuality - brave pioneers existed who came out despite the suffering and pain it brought them. They are heroes of a sort for coming out despite the fears and concerns a person like you has. That is _no disparagement at all_ however on those like yourself who can not make that choice. If it was - then it would be meaningless to call them heroes. Heroes are the people who make the choices we equally _could_ make - but we don't.
Unfortunately for some people Santa not being real does spoil the fun of Christmas. Not everyone clearly - but some people do report a level of disillusionment they got as a child which never went away and still prevents them from really enjoying the period as much as their peers.
It is one of the plethora of reasons why I do not do the "Santa" thing with my own children (now 4 and 8) but find other more reality based reasons to engage them with the holiday that will not be taken away from them in a few short years.
You are certainly not alone in that trap. I have a lot of sympathy for people in it - some of them even deeper than you. "The Clergy Project" for example was established by some wonderfully caring and giving and kindly people to support members of the Clergy who have lost - or never had - religious faith but they can not come clean or honest in that regard or it would ruin them.
After all not many of the "skills" of that line of work are easily transferable to the rest of the job market. The business model of essentially selling lies to children and keeping them buying those lies into adulthood - is not really readily marketable anywhere else. And in fact there are stories of members of the clergy even taking second jobs stacking super market shelves recently because the business model of exploiting the gullible and vulnerable is moving on or disappearing. The monopoly at the moment belongs to the "alternative medicine" market.
Agreed - their well meant encouragements assume a tipping point of people coming out which will change the zeitgeist to the point where people like you will not suffer. But they do not focus too much on the interim period where the pioneers in that coming out will suffer greatly.
Thankfully in other areas - like homosexuality - brave pioneers existed who came out despite the suffering and pain it brought them. They are heroes of a sort for coming out despite the fears and concerns a person like you has. That is _no disparagement at all_ however on those like yourself who can not make that choice. If it was - then it would be meaningless to call them heroes. Heroes are the people who make the choices we equally _could_ make - but we don't.
I'd like to friend you but I can't. Friend me if you are so inclined?
My limits in this is to not lie or pretend. So if I don't come out to all and sundry, I won't pretend, either, regard of consequences. When anyone asks me what my beliefs are I am apt to say that it is a private matter. None of their business, in other words. And if they're clever, they can deduce the rest.
Doesn't bother me at all. I still go along with pretty much all the traditions and try not to kick and scream too much. It's pretty easy to do Christmas without the religious overtones as it's become a fairly secular holiday. We put up a tree, xmas lights and the kids have a blast doing xmas themed activities. We go to parades and tree-lightings and overall have a great time. My favorite Xmas song to hear, ironically, is "Silent Night, Holy night". I saw Merry Christmas. Not really a big deal to me.
For the most part, being in the northeast, the religious overtone tends to be very minimal. You can tell people you are an atheist and many will shrug their shoulders and say "meh" and that's the end of it. Kinda makes it easy. It's not really pushed in schools at all either.
We are throwing a Christmas party this Saturday at our house and I am looking forward to it. Some family and friends we haven't seen in a while will be buy. Quite a few are also non-religious, but it's still fun to participate. Tree will be lit up, decorations are hung, and the kids will be having fun.
Work Xmas themed parties? Count me in. Really not religious at all in this neck of the woods. My company is pretty diverse so plenty of people who aren't catholic attend. More of a social gathering with free food and drink and a chance to talk to your coworkers in a more relaxed atmosphere.
Once in a while you hear the usually religious stuff. We have family that still sends very religious holiday cards and such to us. I just roll with it. No big deal.
Usually the only time I make a big deal out of it is when someone tried to force their views on me or tell me i'm wrong. Then we have problems. That rarely happens though in this area of the country.
I'm moving to Massachusetts!! Can't spell it but I like it! I'm pretty much the same way with all of the holiday goings on, it doesn't bother me. In fact, I rather enjoy Christmas (not as much since I'm not a Christian anymore and I've gotten older) I just put a new spin on it as an atheist. Now it's about family, decorating, children and lots of good food! It's just a way to celebrate life once a year.
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I'm pretty much the same way with all of the holiday goings on, it doesn't bother me. In fact, I rather enjoy Christmas (not as much since I'm not a Christian anymore and I've gotten older) I just put a new spin on it as an atheist. Now it's about family, decorating, children and lots of good food! It's just a way to celebrate life once a year.
