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My wife lost her battle with cancer two and a half months ago. She was a Christian that bordered on Agnostic and I have been an Atheist for the close to the fifty years we were married. She also died of cancer that had metastasized in her bones. She was in a lot of pain for the last year. Even though we never agreed on religion; I respected her beliefs and she did mine. I miss her very much.
That said; do we really want to think that our loved one's consciousness continues after death? She spent the last year in pain and that would be the last thing I would ever want for her. I do not remember anything from before I was born. As an atheist I believe that is what happens after death. We have nothing left upstairs to think or feel the way we did when we were living; or would we want to if we died in pain!
Eternity is a very long time. Any idea of a better 'life' after death is boring for a very long time. I cannot stand to watch the same program a second time on TV. Harps and flutes could get very boring in the first few minutes; let alone eternity! The concept of 'nothing' is the most logical, realistic, and acceptable death. The second my wife died it was like all her pain and suffering was over and she looked peaceful. I will always remember her life and count on the fact that she is no longer suffering.
I guess my issue has always been that I actually fell into a bit of a depression when finally admitted to myself years ago that the concept of an all powerful, all knowing God AND an afterlife where our souls live for eternity just didn't seem possible. That meant that death was the end - that's it. I guess it made me appreciate life a bit more, but every time I see someone die it breaks my heart because that means that they cease to exist.
A friend of mine died from ALS a few years ago. After seeing his body deteriorate to the point where he could no longer speak or walk, I believed that death would be the only thing that would release him from his hell. But then I thought more about how it's not just a release from his body, but from his consciousness - and that seems like hell to me.
I guess I'm feeling the same sadness for my Dad right now.
I guess my issue has always been that I actually fell into a bit of a depression when finally admitted to myself years ago that the concept of an all powerful, all knowing God AND an afterlife where our souls live for eternity just didn't seem possible. That meant that death was the end - that's it. I guess it made me appreciate life a bit more, but every time I see someone die it breaks my heart because that means that they cease to exist.
A friend of mine died from ALS a few years ago. After seeing his body deteriorate to the point where he could no longer speak or walk, I believed that death would be the only thing that would release him from his hell. But then I thought more about how it's not just a release from his body, but from his consciousness - and that seems like hell to me.
I guess I'm feeling the same sadness for my Dad right now.
Be happy that he will be out of pain. Then celebrate his life and the many kind moments you remember. You will still feel sorry; but you're really feeling sorry for yourself (I will be for some time). All of us will die at some time. Enjoy your time while you still have some!
But then I thought more about how it's not just a release from his body, but from his consciousness - and that seems like hell to me.
.
But he won't be aware of his lack of awareness so there's no 'hell' to be experienced.
You're the one suffering and I hope it doesn't last long.It is true usually, that time heals.
As an atheist, it gives me a lot of comfort to know that death will bring peace and an end to pain, sadness, and all the other cares and worries of life.
You are probably lying or your belief in Atheism is very shallow and weak.
Or else, you would’ve mentioned that death will also bring an end to a lot of good things in life that you relish and enjoy, - otherwise, you would’ve committed suicide long time ago.
IMO. the same is perhaps also true for all those religious people who believe that after their death, a red carpet cosmic welcome is awaiting with a “no question asked”, guaranteed spot in paradise.
They are either lying or the faith of their religious believes is weak and shallow - or else they would’ve been wishing and praying 24/7 to their gods to get their natural deaths arrive ASAP, and they had been living a blissful life in paradise long time ago.
Last edited by GoCardinals; 01-01-2019 at 03:15 AM..
As I write this, I'm watching my father sleep. He's losing his battle with cancer and the doctor doesn't think he'll make it to New Years.
Both my father and I are nonbelievers-Ive considered myself to be both and atheist and agnostic through the years.
I'm the type who will argue up and down that I cant believe in an afterlife because it doesn't seem scientifically feasible. But at this very sad time, I desperately want to think that when my dad finally goes, he'll go somewhere great where his consciousness will live forever. I realize that what I want isnt necessarily what is.
For the other non believers out there, how do you cope with death? What can I say to him to calm his fears? I need something now because I hate to think that this great man will be lost forever
Sorry to hear about your situation - and hope that it goes or already has gone, easy on him.
The very fact that our death is a process that none can defeat is an indication that this a supreme power that has an impregnable control - otherwise, if the process of life and death was not controlled (which means death happens by chance) then we would have had at least ONE case in the known history of mankind where a person would’ve lived here forever - Gosh, there are several BILLIONS who lived before us, somebody somewhere must’ve beaten the odds but we don’t stand a chance and hence death is not by chance. It has been imposed upon us by a force.
What is that force?
Remember, I am not calling it God, but I think it’s reasonably fair to open up to the possibility of acknowledging the existence of this force (based on Logical thinking rather than whining about evidence), and then tying to find out what it is?
Fear of death is natural human instinct that many of us experience regardless of if we are theists or Atheists.
And fact of the matter is, no one actually “knows” what’s after death?
There are those who believe there is life/consciousness after death and there are those who believe there is a permanent void after death - both camps are using faith. None has evidence
Last edited by GoCardinals; 01-01-2019 at 04:10 AM..
You are probably lying or your belief in Atheism is very shallow and weak.
Or else, you would’ve mentioned that death will also bring an end to a lot of good things in life that you relish and enjoy, - otherwise, you would’ve committed suicide long time ago.
IMO. the same is perhaps also true for all those religious people who believe that after their death, a red carpet cosmic welcome is awaiting with a “no question asked”, guaranteed spot in paradise.
They are either lying or the faith of their religious believes is weak and shallow - or else they would’ve been wishing and praying 24/7 to their gods to get their natural deaths arrive ASAP, and they had been living a blissful life in paradise long time ago.
No sane person wants good things to end, only bad things. He was addressing the bad things.
And it IS a comfort that those things have an end point. Eventually, they poison the good. Quit while you're "ahead".
It is of course also true that we can never have enough of goodness in life and want to cling to it. But here is where the Buddhists, for all the cruft they add in to it, have things right. Attachments need to be let go of.
As for your point about the religious, yes if they really believed this life is a veil of tears that awaits being lifted after death, they would all commit suicide immediately. However, to prevent Christianity from becoming a suicide cult, the suicide taboo was invented in the Long Ago, and I suspect some similar control is in place for all religions that offer up an afterlife. The cyclic afterlife of some eastern religions has installed its own disincentive, that you either cooperate with karma or will just have more re-dos added to your account. And suicide is not cooperating.
A friend's wife died Sunday after a cancer battle. They were together for over 50 years. As Mrs Mordant and I sat with him for a couple hours yesterday, we were reminded of our own losses of our respective prior spouses to death, and of course, to other deaths, "untimely" and not -- for me, not least my son's death just over 2 years ago.
Death is just part of life, and the less you fight it, the less formidable an adversary it is. 99% of our suffering around death and mortality is bound up in our futile efforts to deny it even exists, to think of it as an unjust and unseemly intruder rather than an inherent part of our existence.
The bereaved husband has had months to prepare for this, since his wife's unambiguously fatal diagnosis. He personifies "don't cry because it ended, smile because it happened". He was listening to songs that reminded him of when he met and fell in love with his wife. He was reflecting on his life path and his future options -- does he stay here or move closer to family? He is numb right now, and knows he'll be overwhelmingly sad, even devastated at times, in the weeks and months and perhaps years to come. But he knows he'll survive and, as his wife wished, live on and have more experiences until his time comes. In the meantime, our front door is open to him anytime he wants to be around people or needs to talk.
He's an unbeliever, but is "cheating" a bit, willingly indulging what he knows is a fantasy by imagining his wife making the transition to death in the Tibetan Buddhist fashion (this was her practice). He reads the Tibetan Book of the Dead to her as she lies in her hospice room for the next couple of days, and then she will be taken away for cremation and he will move on. I have no malfunction with such things, I lie to my subconscious all the time, it is gullible and compliant that way. When I walk, I tell myself I'll stop for coffee and a donut as a reward after the walk, then I invariably change my mind. But it shuts my subconscious up in the meantime, and it never ceases to fall for my ruse.
The very fact that our death is a process that none can defeat is an indication that this a supreme power that has an impregnable control -
OR... it is merely an indication that our bodies are made of moving parts and systems that eventually break down and wear out... not unlike the working parts in your car. All living things are subject to this breakdown. Some insects only last a few days, some tortoises and whales and giant sequoias last for hundreds of years, but all eventually die. What about that physical reality makes us immediately think of a supreme power?
I guess my issue has always been that I actually fell into a bit of a depression when finally admitted to myself years ago that the concept of an all powerful, all knowing God AND an afterlife where our souls live for eternity just didn't seem possible. That meant that death was the end - that's it. I guess it made me appreciate life a bit more, but every time I see someone die it breaks my heart because that means that they cease to exist.
A friend of mine died from ALS a few years ago. After seeing his body deteriorate to the point where he could no longer speak or walk, I believed that death would be the only thing that would release him from his hell. But then I thought more about how it's not just a release from his body, but from his consciousness - and that seems like hell to me.
I guess I'm feeling the same sadness for my Dad right now.
You simply have a very lay and untrue idea of what afterlife is. You look at it as another very very long life you know, hence you rightfully come to conclusion that you don't really want that.
Btw, you spoke of "eternal nothingness" before.. you do realize that when you are dead, according to your conviction, even that is NOT. You simply do not exist, so even eternal nothingness can't be perceived. Think of light bulb. It is shining bright. Switch flips, light is not. No more. That is death in your belief system. There is nothing left to experience anything. Switch flipped.
Same time, everything you lived for became pointless, just in that very moment.
If you really think about it, we are born to die. With the very first breath of a baby, death steps in and steadily gains on life. We are not living. We are continuously dying.
Going back to the first paragraph....
You are in the most important stage of your life. Death is in it, manifesting its power in all its might. This should be a very educational moment for you. Maybe, just maybe, you should look deeper into what life is, what death is. What afterlife is. As, otherwise, what exactly is that you lived for? To find out how your sports team finished? Eat, drink, gain, multiply, have some pleasures that last a moment? That was it?
I'd say, best course is to let your father be as he wishes. To each of his own. HE will cope with HIS death the way HE will. YOU should cope with YOUR life. Death tapped you on your shoulder... wake up... it is never too late...
PS. reason you think of eternal nothingness is rather simple, though not understood by most. No matter how much you try, you will NOT be able to imagine yourself non existing. Worst you can, you cna imagine eternal nothingness yet, even then there will be something to observe it. As I said, two thing one can not imagine. Not existing before and not existing after. Try hard as you can, you will NOT be able to. This happens to be the first proof to you being immortal.
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