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Old 05-25-2019, 03:32 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,723,660 times
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The constitution is a very handy tool there. Here, we have nothing like that but a historically - long body of legal precedent does very well. In a sort of bloodyminded Limey way we prefer Not to have a written constitution that is Dogma.

Anyway..Power. I don't think that Power is what it's about. It is about equal rights and public consent and that's for everyone. But there' I'm getting into areas where I am out - qualified by the average cane-toad.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:20 PM
 
63,810 posts, read 40,087,129 times
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
The constitution is a very handy tool there. Here, we have nothing like that but a historically - long body of legal precedent does very well. In a sort of bloodyminded Limey way we prefer Not to have a written constitution that is Dogma.

Anyway..Power. I don't think that Power is what it's about. It is about equal rights and public consent and that's for everyone. But there' I'm getting into areas where I am out-qualified by the average cane-toad.
America is increasingly looking like Alinsky was correct:

“It is a world not of angels but of angles, where men speak of moral principles but act on power principles; a world where we are always moral and our enemies always immoral;”
― Saul Alinsky, Rules for Radicals
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:32 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,723,660 times
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Help to change it.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Help to change it.
With what little time remains for me, Arq, I will let the younguns deal with it.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:56 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
With what little time remains for me, Arq, I will let the younguns deal with it.
With whatever time i have left, I will suggest which way they should aim.
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Old 05-25-2019, 09:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
With whatever time i have left, I will suggest which way they should aim.
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Old 05-26-2019, 05:47 AM
 
7,591 posts, read 4,161,936 times
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Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I tend to agree, although I would change the word secular to cultural.
Yes. I have mentioned that religion is a part of culture and if there is something wrong with religion, the culture needs to be dealt with as well.
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Old 05-27-2019, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Ohio
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Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I tend to agree, although I would change the word secular to cultural.
I'm good with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
Yes. I have mentioned that religion is a part of culture and if there is something wrong with religion, the culture needs to be dealt with as well.
That's difficult to do when the culture is controlled by literally a handful of people.
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
That's difficult to do when the culture is controlled by literally a handful of people.
Then it will be very difficult to remove religion because religion is a part of culture. It is a solution to some fundamental aspect of human thinking. Religion is part of education; mostly a result of poor human interaction, I suspect.

I would say that today, there are more options for people who are on the fringes of society to be a part of something that is not religious and can see their economic situation improve. Yes, behavior in schools has changed as a result. Yes, behavior in public spaces has changed as well. There is less fear of social consequences. Opinions vary greatly on these changes. When religious people insist that god be brought back in to the school curriculum, back into public spaces, they don't support these changes. This is how they stay relevant; they have a solution ready to go.

Last edited by elyn02; 05-28-2019 at 04:25 AM..
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Old 05-28-2019, 08:38 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,723,660 times
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Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
Then it will be very difficult to remove religion because religion is a part of culture. It is a solution to some fundamental aspect of human thinking. Religion is part of education; mostly a result of poor human interaction, I suspect.

I would say that today, there are more options for people who are on the fringes of society to be a part of something that is not religious and can see their economic situation improve. Yes, behavior in schools has changed as a result. Yes, behavior in public spaces has changed as well. There is less fear of social consequences. Opinions vary greatly on these changes. When religious people insist that god be brought back in to the school curriculum, back into public spaces, they don't support these changes. This is how they stay relevant; they have a solution ready to go.
it isn't a question of 'removing' religion, but of not letting it have political (really -that's what it is) power. If it can't propagandize kids at school, can't get into this or that Board or assembly, if it can't influence politics, it is going to lose power and the job will be done. There will still be the question of money. Religion can get millions from business and donation the way it can't here. But if irreligion is simply doing a lot of videos countering all the propaganda that religion makes (and they are making a heck of a lot just now), then the religious side will be just wasting their money on advertising that nobody takes seriously (1).

'Cultural' Christianity is neither here nor there. It is undeniable and not a problem. It is also irrelevant and no case for Christianity.

P.s Where's Julian gone? He was posting like nobody's business, then he vanished. Could it be that he is thinking it through? I really think that he and we goddless bastards could easily come to an Understanding, if not agreement.

(1) the most prolific and pernicious are the 'Living waters' vids showing atheists being converted or at least stumped by Ray Comfort. He is of course dead wrong, but you need video refutations to show how he's wrong. It is an Axiom (not one of Arq's Axioms) that, once you have had a magic trick explained, you won't be fooled by it again.
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