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Litigation, lobbying and advocacy are a lot more concrete than fighting hazy apparitions of religion (take a moment to truly think about some of the dialogue online - lol). Religion in and of itself is not the enemy - religionists who wish to impose their beliefs on other people (the way you do) and conservative groups such as those behind Project Blitz are the enemy.
Agreed. Religion is NOT the enemy. No more than first cause. The idea of an anti first cause campaign is ludicrous, but that's what the anti -religion accusation amounts to. We think it is wrong, just as we think that the First cause argument i unsound and we will say so when it is used in the debate.
But it is how religion is being imposed on society that is the enemy, both for you, and for me, and for all of us. We have the same enemy, and it is not us.
Correct. Which is why the average bod in the street must be given more than one side - and up to now, the religious side is the only one that has been given. This is why the rise of the 'Nones' is so encouraging. It may not be the efforts of the atheist online loudmouths that has done it, but we don't seem to be hurting it, and - before 'New' atheism - it just wasn't happening. It is hard not to jump to a conclusion or two and rather smile at the supposed atheists who expostulate 'Look at the harm you're doing to the atheist cause!'
Except - you aren’t dealing with ‘bods’ in the street; you are fighting hazy apparitions online (which may or may not be real). Read over some of the dialogue in the R&S forums; it’s impossible to miss (and impossible not to question in a thread about ‘concrete things’ we can do).
Note that the US has had a long antipathy for atheists and atheism.
In the 1950s, Daniel Seeger filled out a conscientious objector form for the military as a nonbeliever. He took it all the way to the Supreme Court and in 1965, the Justices found unanimously that a draftee did not need to believe in God in order to have a conscience that could object. Unfortunately, the standing of atheists in the public sphere has been slow to improve.
At the end of the Obama Administration Congress passed and the President signed a new version of the International Religious Freedom Act that officially included nonbelievers. “The freedom of thought, conscience, and religion is understood to protect theistic and non-theistic beliefs and the right not to profess or practice any religion,” the law was revised to read. That law extended important new protections to atheists.
I reckon we are dealing with bods in the street and not some 'hazy apparitions' that may be in your head but not ours. You are again trying to force your views on us. You can think what you like and even say what you like (within ToS) but we don't have to go along with it. And i still wonder why you much prefer to argue with atheists than try to convince Christians (and us).
I reckon we are dealing with bods in the street and not some 'hazy apparitions' that may be in your head but not ours. You are again trying to force your views on us. You can think what you like and even say what you like (within ToS) but we don't have to go along with it. And i still wonder why you much prefer to argue with atheists than try to convince Christians (and us).
Stating my opinion is not ‘forcing’ anything. I’m not arguing with other atheists - I’m disagreeing with you. You are not dealing with ‘bods’ in the street. Anyone who knows anything about the internet questions its validity at times (especially when it comes to being ‘concrete’). That anyone would blindly believe every dialogue (or opinion) without question would be extremely naive and illogical. I simply choose to fight more reality-based battles such as Project Blitz (the legislative assault/mugging by national conservatives coming to a state near you).
Last edited by CorporateCowboy; 05-12-2019 at 10:27 AM..
Then i'm content that we are both doing what we are doing.
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