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I have long since forgotten about that particular guy, and will be starting a new job soon. I sure hope it is the start of something good!
Have you? You started this thread because....
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrioticSuperman
I have had someone living rent-free in my head for a couple weeks now... This discussion bothered me enough that I decided I did not want to live in that house.
This thread appears to have little to do with atheism and agnosticism, and everything to do with how we interact with others, and how we express ourselves. Interpersonal dynamics are, by definition, a two-way street... and we're getting one side of that street. By your own description, you engaged in a... "two-hour conversation, the last 20 to 30 minutes of which were basically the "There is a God" vs "There is no God." That's a pretty heavy-duty conversation to have with someone you apparently just met, for the purposes of renting a house/room. One wonders why/how that even came up.
In any event, good luck with your new job. Maybe don't start off on day 1 with "There is a God" and you won't learn how fervently your coworkers believe otherwise, and how insulting they can be when defending that belief? Just a thought.
Last edited by HeelaMonster; 08-11-2021 at 07:41 AM..
The biggest hurdle I see here is that these discussions are not based on discussing beliefs that seem to match observations or predict events in people. Or tie the good parts in different beliefs together. Whike looking at the parts that are inconsistent.
There is an under tone of ... well ... you know, Just look at the titles. It more about "them" then it is us.
This is my first foray into this forum. I am a Christian (as in. I would say I am a Baptist; moreso, that, I have a personal relationship with God. I do not presently attend Church...) and
I have had someone living rent-free in my head for a couple weeks now, pretty much as the title says..
Firmly believes there is NO god, people that believe in God are stupid and simple-minded, etc etc.
This discussion bothered me enough that I decided I did not want to live in that house, but.. The idea seems to be, that, truly scientific people would find no reason to believe in God (specifically Christianity, though these people are less dismissive of other religions) etc etc.
So. I thought I would pose it to the forum.
Is the "You're stupid if you believe in God" part really necessary? I did also come to the conclusion that the person was an alcoholic, jerk, probably scam artist, and definitely had control issues (making them well suited to run a scam. Control everything. True sociopath. The ones to run from.)
?
How does one go about telling someone that they consider the central foundation of that person's entire world view, their religious convictions, to be little more than silly nonsense WITHOUT insulting them? Especially if the other person happens to open with a declaration of just why their beliefs are unassailable. After years of trying to go gently, I finally concluded that the other person is going to be insulted and outraged no matter what.
So I have learned to respond unemotionally, factually and in full detail,
Some people are just going to get insulted/agitated just because one doesn't agree. Generally speaking, if we know the person, its never really about the belief. They hear the word "atheist"/"theist" or anything that opposes their stance and they get a feeling in the pit of their stomach.
How does one go about telling someone that they consider the central foundation of that person's entire world view, their religious convictions, to be little more than silly nonsense WITHOUT insulting them? Especially if the other person happens to open with a declaration of just why their beliefs are unassailable. After years of trying to go gently, I finally concluded that the other person is going to be insulted and outraged no matter what.
So I have learned to respond unemotionally, factually and in full detail,
I avoid the topic, unless the other person constantly brings it up. Typically, this sort of person is one who's intent is to proselytize. In this case, I state clearly that I do not believe any myths or superstitions. If the person finds my view offensive, oh well.
How does one go about telling someone that they consider the central foundation of that person's entire world view, their religious convictions, to be little more than silly nonsense WITHOUT insulting them? Especially if the other person happens to open with a declaration of just why their beliefs are unassailable. After years of trying to go gently, I finally concluded that the other person is going to be insulted and outraged no matter what.
So I have learned to respond unemotionally, factually and in full detail,
Good post.
There are two possible settings we could consider. One is a setting like this forum where the intent is to have discussions. The forum has a tone to it. A tone that evolves over time. There are those of us on the atheist side who can be rather blunt, but the same is true on the theist side.
The other setting, however, is a bit more problematic. Most of us have been approached by strangers, or even by friends or colleagues who suddenly launch into a religious discussion based on proselytization. I feel no need to be anything less than blunt with them.
But here's what really bothers me -- the presumption on the part of religionists that of course I should respect their religious beliefs. Why? Do I generally hear respectful comments when a christian or muslim person realizes I am Buddhist. Nope. The best I can usually hope for is neutrality.
One of the reasons i stay on this forum is to see just how much religion or atheism iscpublic in some peiples lives. In 70 years of my life it hax always been private. I do not know the religious beliwfs, if any, of my friends and family. Even former house mates ive had that read the Bibke it never came up. Nor with the ESL students from 7 or 8 countries do conversation about the subject. And almost no mention of if at work. And som were regular church attenders who might talk about the music or about people we know in common being sick or separated or a pain in committees.I
So conversations like the OP or prayers at meetings or being preached at work are experiences i have never encounted. I dont even know the religion of my local.politian who i have know for 30 years and was at his parents 50 anniversary. I know the religion of my federal MP only due it was mentiined in passing on a news report.
I havetried to make this as neutral as i can, as an observation not a value judgement. AA i am sure yoy will find some way to twist this post in order to attack me so go ahead as your comments have no value to me especiallt after your HOA silly comment.
One of the reasons i stay on this forum is to see just how much religion or atheism iscpublic in some peiples lives. In 70 years of my life it hax always been private. I do not know the religious beliwfs, if any, of my friends and family. Even former house mates ive had that read the Bibke it never came up. Nor with the ESL students from 7 or 8 countries do conversation about the subject. And almost no mention of if at work. And som were regular church attenders who might talk about the music or about people we know in common being sick or separated or a pain in committees.I
So conversations like the OP or prayers at meetings or being preached at work are experiences i have never encounted. I dont even know the religion of my local.politian who i have know for 30 years and was at his parents 50 anniversary. I know the religion of my federal MP only due it was mentiined in passing on a news report.
I havetried to make this as neutral as i can, as an observation not a value judgement. AA i am sure yoy will find some way to twist this post in order to attack me so go ahead as your comments have no value to me especiallt after your HOA silly comment.
This thread appears to have little to do with atheism and agnosticism, and everything to do with how we interact with others, and how we express ourselves. Interpersonal dynamics are, by definition, a two-way street... and we're getting one side of that street. By your own description, you engaged in a... "two-hour conversation, the last 20 to 30 minutes of which were basically the "There is a God" vs "There is no God."That's a pretty heavy-duty conversation to have with someone you apparently just met, for the purposes of renting a house/room. One wonders why/how that even came up.
In any event, good luck with your new job. Maybe don't start off on day 1 with "There is a God" and you won't learn how fervently your coworkers believe otherwise, and how insulting they can be when defending that belief? Just a thought.
THANK YOU. Who even has these conversations? If I ever discussed my beliefs with someone, it would be someone I already considered a friend and we were sitting around drinking wine or some such. It's not something I share with strangers and near-strangers, or people like colleagues, and definitely not something I would reveal in any kind of business or professional transaction like leasing a room.
This is a discussion forum. When people discuss religion they often state their own beliefs.
You still don't get it. THIS, on City Data, is a forum for discussing beliefs.
The OP wrote about an IN-PERSON conversation.
Do you understand now?
Or do you go around thinking the world is your personal forum and announcing your personal beliefs to strangers face-to-face? I would hope not.
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