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If Jesus existed, he was just a human man. He was obviously a philosopher of sorts, and probably an all-around decent kind of guy. He had some good things to say, and was charismatic enough that he had groupies.
If he existed, he wasn't the son of a god, his mother didn't conceive him supernaturally, and he didn't rise from the dead. There are also several miracles ascribed to him that he couldn't possibly have done. So perhaps he was a really good illusionist on top of it all. At the very least, he was certainly a performer.
Interesting..... Somehow, Jesus is mentioned in the Roman records.
OOPS, my bad, my brain, or what is left of it, was moving faster than my fingers, it should read, "Somehow, Jesus is not mentioned in the Roman records." Pontius Pilate was real enough and the records of his court proceedings are fairly complete. Barabas (sp?) was a thief, and executed, in spite of the popular legend.
I agree with toop, it is very difficult to find any real hard evidence to the existance of Jesus. But my view on this charachters life are as such: If there was a man named Jesus i think that he would have been a kind and compashonate man. He may have placesd his ideas and moras in his divine father, but so what if it made him a better man and kinder to the people. as far as Jesus being devine, resurceted, turning water to wine, i see it all as an elabort bed time story.
The images of a lone man wondering through out a country, having an impact on so many people, attempting to make the world a better place the best way he knew how, is an admirable life story.
i just wish that other people could do such on there own with out needing some story character to guide there wayl.
I believe he was a real person who was one of many 'messiahs" among the Jews of the day. I obviously, do not believe he is a god-man, nor did any of his miracles really occur. There is some sketchy evidence that he was crucified by the Romans, but I certainly don't believe he rose from the dead. The reason for the ascendancy of the Christian Church was due to politics via the power for the Roman Empire, not due to any religious aspects. If Rome had not been behind it, the Christian sect would have disappeared like so many other movements.
So in response to one of the threads about things being so quiet, I figured I'd ask what you all think of the historical Jesus. What are the common A&A thoughts on the life and death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth?
To me it's not important if Jesus did or did not exist. The importance is that people believed he did. The christian concept of life and death and the resurrection was borrowed from older and contemporary mythologies (amongst other things). That's how I view it.
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Like most of the rest have written, I believe JC existed, but I do not believe he was the literal son of God, nor that he was born of a virgin nor that he worked miracles or rose from the dead. JC was a very charismatic man who lived in a time of great turmoil and confusion. His "world" was such a small part of the globe we now know to be our earth, however, and his ideas and beliefs were only in relationship to what he knew. Without knowledge or understanding of natural science, medicine, etc, the people of JC's time lived in constant fear, and this man, who taught love and salvation (from whatever terrorized the people) was a person many would grasp on to for a feeling of safety.
I believe the man Jesus was obsessed with whatever "mission" he felt compelled follow. He didn't have to die on the cross, he had plenty of chances to get out of town...but he literally forced the issue. His determination to be a martyr for his beliefs was all-encompassing. Today he would probably be diagnosed as borderline schizophrenic and his followers would be said to have joined a "cult". They fit the profile perfectly...giving up everything, including their own being, to follow a man who promised perfection and Nirvana...so to speak...but only if they gave up their lives and ways and took on his cause.
The whole concept of Jesus doesn't make sense to me. First of all, he is God (same being), and yet God sent him down to earth to die for our sins (separate beings). So, he sent himself down to be crucified? And why does God need to do such a horrible thing, if he is all powerful, loving and forgiving. Why can't he just wave his hand and say "I forgive all people for their sins, since I am responsible for giving them free will anyway."
Next, even though there is a lot of secular evidence of many people of Jesus' day, we have no contemporaneous writings at all of Jesus. All of the NT was written decades after his supposed story happened. There is no record of events such as the infanticide at Jesus' birth, or the big disturbance he made at the temple on passover eve. These things seem so big that there had to be someone who wrote about them at around the same time they happened. But we have no evidence like this.
Also, practically every 'fantastical' thing about Jesus was common mythology that predates Jesus by far. Things like the virgin birth, the death and resurrection, the faith healing, etc. I mean, Hercules had a pretty similar origin, God impregnating a mortal woman. He also traveled the earth, performing amazing feats to help people. Hercules also died, ascended to Mt. Olympus and became a god. Ancient Greeks believed in Hercules in a similar way Christians believe in Jesus today. Hail Hercules, our savior!
BTW, Josephus and Tacitus both reference Hercules, even more than Jesus. But they were not contemporaneous of Jesus anyway, so they prove nothing regardless.
I see no harm in thinking he existed as a person. Thats fine. Not as far as all the magical things he did, without proof and evidence, its hard to swallow. It would be more likely in today's day and age, but if anyone claims to be a healer and son a God today, we (including Christians) call him a kook. Its all very hypocritical. You don't beleive in Wizards and Witches and magicians today, but if it happened 2000 yrs ago in some old book it happened? HUH?
So in response to one of the threads about things being so quiet, I figured I'd ask what you all think of the historical Jesus. What are the common A&A thoughts on the life and death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth?
the short answer is, its a story, nothing more.
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