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Freedom you are wrong. You are lumping gay men and women into one group. Lesbians have the LOWEST rate of sexually transmitted diseases. Lower than ANY OTHER GROUP. Does this mean that your god is OK with lesbians but not gay men? Maybe it just means that disease travels the path of least resistance (man to man AND man to woman).
FREEDOM you call yourself? A touch ironic that, wouldn't you say?
It also means Free-doom....
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Firstly then, please supply the exact data about gay deaths before you start brandishing unqualified statistics in support of your argument. (if you want to be taken remotely seriously).
Posted stats many times... if you don't know this, you need to study the issue.
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And secondly, remember to include the figures for suicides among young gay men, as well as the deaths from direct assault from bigots.
Again, its all at your finger tips if you truly don't know.
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And relax, sodomy is unlikely to be made compulsory for all, although I doubt you would find it too easy to find a willing partner anywhere, given the harshness of your views.
Harshness, trying to protect people from self inflicted injuries? I call that caring.
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Now I have realised you are serious in advocating the making of homosexuality illegal, I have managed to stop laughing. Do you ever think through your ideas or consider the implications of what you say?
Less than 20 yrs ago it was illegal is some states and 60 yrs ago it was illegal in every state.
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Please get used to the basic facts. Nature, for whatever reason, has ALWAYS produced gay people at a fairly standard percentage of the population, and not just in the human species. Furthermore, Nature is very likely to go on doing the same thing, regardless of your personal inability to handle this fact.
Oh yes the indistinguishable NATURE!...
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Have you heard of the old British legend of King Canute trying to order the tide not to come in, thinking the ocean should obey his command? As you can guess, the Ocean took no notice whatever of Canute, much to his annoyance.
That is exactly your position!
You clearly don't understand my position...
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According to you, then, a large number of babies would be born criminals from the womb - because gay people are born, and not converted to their orientation. All modern research tends to this view, so again, Sir, GET USED TO IT.
Now your just making things up... there is no gay gene, there is no non-biased science to back up your claim...
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As for seatbelts, I fail to see the connection. The Gay lifestyle is NOT, as you would have us believe, a car crash. When gay people are accorded the same courtesy as everyone else when it comes to live-and-let-live, you will find that we represent a valuable, happy and uniquely colourful branch of society, and in no way inferior to you.
No its a death sentence.
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It used to be the case that black Americans were the target of this sort of negative discrimination, but we now, fortunately, live in more enlightened times. Feel free to come on-board.
Blacks are not particurly comfortable to being compared to the gay movement, you might want to be careful with that comparison..
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Why Oh Why can't you find it in your heart to turn your condemnation into love? -- it is the ONLY way that forward in this crazy world.
I don't lack love for anyone, i have great compassion and empathy for destructive behavior, i'd like to see those that have the ability to overcome these tests and move towards healthy relationships, whether gay or straight.
Freedom you are wrong. You are lumping gay men and women into one group. Lesbians have the LOWEST rate of sexually transmitted diseases. Lower than ANY OTHER GROUP. Does this mean that your god is OK with lesbians but not gay men? Maybe it just means that disease travels the path of least resistance (man to man AND man to woman).
Higher levels of depression, breast cancer and alchoholism... the breast cancer thing may be linked to them having less children, i'm not sure though...
Achohol and depression are triggers as well...
Higher levels of depression, breast cancer and alchoholism... the breast cancer thing may be linked to them having less children, i'm not sure though...
Achohol and depression are triggers as well...
godspeed,
freedom
Eh, exposure to car exhaust and phalates have also been shown to up the risk of breast cancer.
Just about everything gives you cancer it seems.
A report recently came out that oral sex (cunnilingus and fellatio can increase your risk for oral cancer.
I always had my doubts growing up on whether or not God existed.
I listened more to my doubts when I started to discover my lesbianism. The timing was ironic because the church I used to attend on a regular basis, was just starting the "Sexual Purity" discussion. I pretty much knew there would be the whole, "Don't be gay..." blah blah blah so I just decided to leave.
With the debates of same-sex marriage, I sometimes ask why I have to subscribe to what their religion says when I am not even a Christian?
If all the things in the bible were followed, we would be in such bad shape.
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5
Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10
Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17
Paul, knowing that their faith would crumble if subjected to free and critical inquiry, tells his followers to avoid philosophy. Colossians 2:8
Freedom I would wager that your stats are dated from the 80s and 90s...I am making an assumption that you are talking about AIDS...I have news for you.... AIDS does not discriminate between sexes or sexual preferences. You are also wrong about there being no evidence that gays are born that way. I'm sure you have seen it posted many times, but you deny anything that doesn't fit your anti gay agenda or mesh with your biblical beliefs. I see very little difference between your position and Fred Phelps position except that Phelps is more open about his homophobic ideas.
Higher levels of depression, breast cancer and alchoholism... the breast cancer thing may be linked to them having less children, i'm not sure though...
Achohol and depression are triggers as well...
godspeed,
freedom
Did it ever occur to you that all of these things may be in part or entirely caused the bigotry against them?
Blacks are not particurly comfortable to being compared to the gay movement, you might want to be careful with that comparison..
Yet you have no problem comparing gays with alcoholics, prostitutes and drug addicts?...sigh. This thread has become hijacked like so many others related to this topic.
Am I alone in discovering that some of the Christian debates elsewhere on this forum are rampantly homophobic in their general tone?
I am concerned that it is fully admissible to belittle gay people in these forums, with frequent quotes from the bible which are aimed at proving that gay people and the gay lifestyle are 'an abomination' and a sin to be severely punished?
In an age when it is illegal to incite hatred against racial and other minorities, why is it that these spiteful put-downs are standard fare, as I have discovered in the last week when visiting several Christian forums in a spirit of interest and enquiry?
Is it right to freely target what is only against religious dogma, and not against the law. I would argue that this is antisocial in every sense, and can lead to much hurt, particularly for young gay people who may not be secure enough in themselves to withstand such abusive treatment.
The whole ethos of fundamentalist religious thinking, much in evidence, is that gay people are inherently deficient as human beings, and unless they renounce their orientation they are an offence both to god and to mankind.
The paradox being, of course, that according to them, sexual expression is only admissible within marriage - an institution which they would vehemently deny to gays anyway!
As a humanist, I find this sort of mindset increasingly offensive. Indeed, my overall impression of such Christian forums is the conspicuous absence of LOVE - rather ironically - given that biblical people profess to worship a god of LOVE . By the same token, condemnation is always implicit, and all too often extremely explicit, too.
Try substituting the word Jew, for instance, for Gay in these contexts, and you soon realise the level of offensiveness at work here.
So... should we be making more of a fuss about all this?
In the interest of common decency and basic respect for our differences, I strongly believe we should -- and very loudly too!
-- Brian.
I don't mean to open a can-o-worms here, but in my experience most gay hating Christians just don't like gay people and use the bible to justify it, they don't use the bible first, they use what is says as a cover. So even if the bible said something else, they still wouldn't like gay people.
Whether you can see it or not, every word you write is dripping with rancour and spitefulness...
You don't CARE for the folk you would have us believe your heart bleeds for in the least - it's a very transparent excuse for gay-bashing, pure and simple. So who do you think you are kidding.
Not a word from you about the huge tragedy of Aids in Africa, for instance, where the vast majority of the victims are young heterosexual people and their children. It's all very easy to sit at your computer and blast away at gays whilst ignoring the larger picture, I can see it's a favourite hobby of yours, and no doubt makes you feel VERY superior.
So please, don't insult my intelligence by pretending that your only motive is a concern for your fellow men and women. Reading between the lines, it is obvious to me that there is a strong element of gloating at the misfortune of others in your attitude, and a very unpleasant spectacle this is in any humane society, and does you little credit.
As for the persecution of black people I mentioned - forget the veiled threat. I have a wide circle of friends, and very many of them are decent and supportive black friends who, believe me, have no problems with their gay brothers and sisters.
In fact, having come from a terrible background of oppression themselves, thay would have little sympathy with your ideas re. gays. They remember all too well that the bible explicitly condones slavery and the beating of slaves, so don't expect any sympathy in that quarter. People in general are getting more tolerant and enlightened by the day - which is why the bible is destined to be left behind as an arbiter of morality.
The sooner it, and your outdated views (with respect) are relegated to history, the happier the world will be,
Last edited by brianrees; 10-25-2008 at 10:30 AM..
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