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Old 10-25-2008, 04:33 PM
 
Location: UK.
350 posts, read 314,606 times
Reputation: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizabeth7 View Post
Why on earth should I try to impinge on your life? I have no interest in your life. I don't even know you.
You seem to take my beliefs (to which I am perfectly entitled) very personally. This is a forum for opinions and beliefs. You may not like mine but they are every bit as worthy of respect as yours.
I think it's called free speech, isn't it?
As regards the Bible, you sound positively rabid on the subject. Do try and get a grip.

I happen to believe, that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life.
That is my belief, which, I have no intention, and never have, of forcing on anyone else.

It is you that seems to be lacking in the tolerance department.
Oh, by the way, I have just told my other half that I am 'holier than thou'.
He's still laughing. (Not me, Guv.)
Quote:
The bible is quite clear on all sexual misconduct. Homosexuality is one of them.

It would be foolish to deny that this area of sexuality is complex. It is another feature of fallen and sinful mankind. No more or less than any other. But it is sinful.
Dear Elizabeth.

I refer you back to your original posting (quoted above)...

When you insist you are not forcing your beliefs on anyone else, how do you equate that with saying that I represent, in effect, 'fallen and sinful mankind' ?? Being who I am is sinful in your eyes, then? I call that 'impinging' on my life. Of course I do. Why is this not obvious to you? Shouldn't I resent and refute your view of me as an inadequate human being? Unsurprisingly, Elizabeth I very much DO take offence at this.

You can't deny that you are contradicting yourself, so in turning the tables on me, as you do above, accusing me of disrespect etc. your protestations, forgive me, sound a bit hollow.

I'm delighted your husband had a good laugh, if you think that smugly pointing out the error of their ways to other people is NOT 'holier than thou'. I, too, think it's hilarious! (NOT).

I'm sure you're not an insensitive woman, Elizabeth, so it troubles me to have to point out to you that such a blanket dismissal of my basic integrity is a very hurtful thing, and one I have no choice but to take you to task for.

You say I, and my friends are all "fallen" and "sinful" without a second thought, and then you wander that I react strongly to this? No, I don't know you, but you were the first to cast a stone in my direction, careless of whether it would hurt my feelings or not. So please spare me the lecture on free speech etc. etc. - I wasn't the one to point out that your marriage to your husband is sinful in the eyes of your Lord - and neither would I presume to be so insolent.

It's EXACTLY the same when it comes to MY personal relationships - purely a matter for me and those I love - your god notwithstanding. Is asking your respect for my private life too much for you? It's all down to RESPECT at the end of the day, as I'm sure you would agree as soon as you have finished laughing.

Rabid about the bible? - no more so than I would be about any other book that instructs me to kill, burn and stone to death my fellow man and woman...

 
Old 10-25-2008, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 7,972,490 times
Reputation: 1049
Quote:
Originally Posted by technobarbie View Post
Your right I don't understand.

You also said this.



That's an odd way of caring, and we obviously don't speak the same language, so I'll agree to disagree.
Its illegal to put a child in a car without a car seat... Its illegal to drive without a seat belt. Do we not care for ourselves or our children through laws?

Illegal doesn't mean to condemn or lock up and throw away the key.
It can be used to help people that need it.

godspeed,

freedom
 
Old 10-25-2008, 04:38 PM
 
2,633 posts, read 3,075,808 times
Reputation: 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
As i said, its illegal not to wear a seatbelt, it use to be illegal to perform gay sex, it was considered immoral and repugnant, not to long ago. If we protect people from undue injury in car accidents, we should consider helping them in other ways as well.
If it is such a destructive and difficult lifestyle there should be help for those that do not wish to live in it. I advocate for funding help programs for sexually confused people. Not to condemn them and be prejudice against them. Of all the gays i know and have met, they mostly wish they were not gay. So lets find ways to help them, not enable them.
Is it comparable though? Crashing at high speeds while not wearing a seat-belt will most likely kill you or hurt you badly. More importantly you can kill the people around you.

So now, how much does homosexual sex kill on average? What are the diseases, what are the increased rates compared to hetro sex? How does it compare to say not washing your hands?(around 50% bigger chance to catch a disease and specially bad on developing countries)

So tell me freedom, why do I feel that you are exaggerating the issues for the sake of making a point?
 
Old 10-25-2008, 04:42 PM
 
2,633 posts, read 3,075,808 times
Reputation: 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizabeth7 View Post
Hi, have I got this right. If a topic is started on the A & A forum, 'believers' are not encouraged to comment? I ask in sincerity and am not being flippant.
Everyone is encouraged to comment but you must remember that this is a sub-forum populated by people who don't believe in the bible. Saying "the bible says its bad" just wont cut it here so looking for other reasons is recommended. I mean there must be a simple reason or reasons as to why God condemns homosexuality.
 
Old 10-25-2008, 04:44 PM
 
272 posts, read 296,993 times
Reputation: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by elizabeth7 View Post
Hi, have I got this right. If a topic is started on the A & A forum, 'believers' are not encouraged to comment? I ask in sincerity and am not being flippant.
Please don't believe that's what he meant. He's saying know your audience before you post. You claimed that he is a sinner, and regardless of what he thinks, you say he's a sinner anyway. Your placing judgment from your belief system that he doesn't hold. That's not to say we can't have debates together, it just means you come across as arrogant. I don't think that was your intention, but that is how these things come across sometimes. I think it's harder for a Christian to debate an atheist, than the other way around.
 
Old 10-25-2008, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 7,972,490 times
Reputation: 1049
Quote:
Originally Posted by coosjoaquin View Post
Is it comparable though? Crashing at high speeds while not wearing a seat-belt will most likely kill you or hurt you badly. More importantly you can kill the people around you.
yes, so it is smart to protect eachother in the event of a crash.

Quote:
So now, how much does homosexual sex kill on average? What are the diseases, what are the increased rates compared to hetro sex? How does it compare to say not washing your hands?(around 50% bigger chance to catch a disease and specially bad on developing countries)
Here is a report from the CDC, HIV is on the rise once again, look at the stats.
Fact Sheet: HIV/AIDS among Men Who Have Sex with Men | Resources | HIV/AIDS and Men Who Have Sex with Men (MSM) | Topics | CDC HIV/AIDS

Quote:
So tell me freedom, why do I feel that you are exaggerating the issues for the sake of making a point?
Maybe because you havn't studied the issue enough? Homosexuals are killing eachother because they choose not to control themselves and they are dying because of it, as well as putting others at great risk.

godspeed,

freedom
 
Old 10-25-2008, 04:54 PM
 
Location: England
307 posts, read 299,208 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianrees View Post
Dear Elizabeth.

I refer you back to your original posting (quoted above)...

When you insist you are not forcing your beliefs on anyone else, how do you equate that with saying that I represent, in effect, 'fallen and sinful mankind' ?? Being who I am is sinful in your eyes, then? I call that 'impinging' on my life. Of course I do. Why is this not obvious to you? Shouldn't I resent and refute your view of me as an inadequate human being? Unsurprisingly, Elizabeth I very much DO take offence at this.

You can't deny that you are contradicting yourself, so in turning the tables on me, as you do above, accusing me of disrespect etc. your protestations, forgive me, sound a bit hollow.

I'm delighted your husband had a good laugh, if you think that smugly pointing out the error of their ways to other people is NOT 'holier than thou'. I, too, think it's hilarious! (NOT).

I'm sure you're not an insensitive woman, Elizabeth, so it troubles me to have to point out to you that such a blanket dismissal of my basic integrity is a very hurtful thing, and one I have no choice but to take you to task for.

You say I, and my friends are all "fallen" and "sinful" without a second thought, and then you wander that I react strongly to this? No, I don't know you, but you were the first to cast a stone in my direction, careless of whether it would hurt my feelings or not. So please spare me the lecture on free speech etc. etc. - I wasn't the one to point out that your marriage to your husband is sinful in the eyes of your Lord - and neither would I presume to be so insolent.

It's EXACTLY the same when it comes to MY personal relationships - purely a matter for me and those I love - your god notwithstanding. Is asking your respect for my private life too much for you? It's all down to RESPECT at the end of the day, as I'm sure you would agree as soon as you have finished laughing.

Rabid about the bible? - no more so than I would be about any other book that instructs me to kill, burn and stone to death my fellow man and woman...
Firstly Brian, if you would care to re-read my post, I said that the bible is quite clear on ALL sexual misconduct. Homosexuality being just one of them. No more censure and no less.

You are either very unsure of your standing or violently opposed to anyone who has a different opinion to yourself. Or perhaps both.

Please understand, I have struggled in my life too. I am by no means squeaky clean. You are not the only one. The world does not revolve around your feelings OR mine.

I treat everyone I meet in life, with respect. If I met you and knew you my behaviour would not change towards you because I knew you were homosexual. (I have only just realised this after reading some later posts).
I am sure that the Jesus I have faith in would pop into my mind and tell me to remove the beam from my own eye first.
That does not alter the fact that I believe homosexuality is wrong. Like sex outside marriage is wrong.
I'm sorry if this offends you. I am continually offended, but keep my mouth shut.
 
Old 10-25-2008, 05:00 PM
 
Location: southern california
47,936 posts, read 43,389,049 times
Reputation: 38729
i see very few christian attacks on gays but lots of gay and atheist attacks on christians.
just saying what i have seen.
of course there is the rampant problem of calling a defense an attack and vis versa
there is a lot of hostility on CDF towards christians.
oddly none at all expressed toward judaism or islam both monotheistic.
 
Old 10-25-2008, 05:03 PM
 
272 posts, read 296,993 times
Reputation: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by coosjoaquin View Post
Is it comparable though? Crashing at high speeds while not wearing a seat-belt will most likely kill you or hurt you badly. More importantly you can kill the people around you.

So now, how much does homosexual sex kill on average? What are the diseases, what are the increased rates compared to hetro sex? How does it compare to say not washing your hands?(around 50% bigger chance to catch a disease and specially bad on developing countries)

So tell me freedom, why do I feel that you are exaggerating the issues for the sake of making a point?
I wonder if he's gonna dig the hole he's already created even deeper. hehe
 
Old 10-25-2008, 05:12 PM
 
Location: England
307 posts, read 299,208 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by technobarbie View Post
I wonder if he's gonna dig the hole he's already created even deeper. hehe
I am a nurse. Without wishing to go into details, the physical act of penetration in homosexual practises results, eventually, in severe damage.

This does not occur in normal, and benign, sexual relations between a man and a woman.

It is not normal or natural.
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