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Old 10-27-2008, 02:54 AM
 
1,658 posts, read 3,033,099 times
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If this was legalised then it would just be like what cannabis joints are in Amsterdam. A Mafia will end up controlling some or all of it. We have a gangster owned place here in the Midlands. Loads have been shut down in the past.
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Old 10-27-2008, 02:55 AM
 
1,658 posts, read 3,033,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Porn is legal, and you can bet porn stars are screwing people they don't know for money just the same!
And they are! At the Bunny Ranch in Nevada. Just like gambling was only legal in the past, this is the only place to open that trade.
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Old 10-27-2008, 04:58 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,032 posts, read 24,563,808 times
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My big problem with prostitution is that many, many prostitutes are not doing it as a career choice but because they have through circumstances become forced into it.

I used to write for a student magazine and did a lot of research talking to prostitutes etc... and what I found was young women who either through terrible family lives ( like being abused by parents etc...) or getting into drugs were then left to fend off for themselves and sell their bodies just to barely exist. very few seemed to be "independent" also and ended up "owned" and abused by their pimps.

There is also the issue of sex trafficking which is now huge and extremely common and I'm afraid I think prostitution is not really a clear defined issue of consenting adults walking the streets.

Organised crime is now one of the main contributors to prostitution and I met very few women who chose to become street walkers.

If women were truly independent, and consenting and prostitution was clearly a real choice I might find this issue a bit easier to accept.
As things stand now I find it really quite a distressing and very murky issue.

I think many men absolve themselves of any "guilt" by trying to pretend to themselves that it is a "clean" business and that the women are there because of choice when it is not the case. The vast majority of women go from one type of abuse ( parental/drug etc... ) to another. And men are utterly complicit in this act simply because they can't keep it in their pants.
For most women prostitution is a last resort, a "choice" of desperation and it seems odd to me that many of us bury our hands in the sand about it.

Organised crime, sex trafficking, terrible home lives , drug problems, poverty, all these are really what most prostitution is about.
For example in Amsterdam , always heralded as this safe and very enlightened place for prostitutes the vast majority of prostitutes come from the far East or Eastern Europe. There are hardly ANY Dutch prostitutes in Amsterdam, they have to be "imported" which to me implies a serious issue arising from enforced sex slavery.

A legalised brothel with very strict rules and with serious checks would certainly help with this but for the majority of prostitutes this is just not the reality and let's face it most of these women are "invisible", used and abused on a daily basis, assaulted and raped, traded like flesh and treated as less than animals because their clients arrogantly assume their "needs" come first. Most prostitute clients IMO seriously kid themselves if they really believe they have chosen that life. Actually they kid themselves, they just do not care what their kicks actually means to the woman they have sex with.

The Link Between Prostitution and Sex Trafficking (http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/38790.htm - broken link)
Prostitution & Sex Trafficking (http://www.iast.net/ProstitutionSexTrafficking.htm - broken link)
Europe Reconsiders Prostitution as Sex Trafficking Booms | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 28.04.2008

Women's bodies should not be treated as commodities to be traded for and bought. Yes it is the oldest profession in the world but I will never understand how any man can think of a woman as walking orrifices for his personal pleasure.

Prostitution is on the whole a dehumanising and debasing business and is hardly ever a business between two equals.

This is a far more complex issue than most people want to think about and one which brings real questions about "choice".
"The Bunny Ranch " in Nevada is not what the vast majority of prostitution entails.

There is true pain, abuse and a lot of criminal acts involved along the way for most women. For a man to consider women as sexual property to be taken any time he feels like it simply because he can pay is to me just completely beyond comprehension. It might be good if men actually thought about what the journey of the person whose services they buy has actually entailed.

I am not a prude and should women be truly equal partners in the exchange then I would find it a lot more palatable. As it stands now I am afraid prostitution and a lot of the sex industry in general as a lot to answer for and is hardly a "clean" business morally and ethically.


For many women prostitution is only another form of slavery. And there is nothing sexy or acceptable about any form of slavery.
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Old 10-27-2008, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,502 posts, read 36,999,655 times
Reputation: 13972
Most of what you say is true of illegal prostitution, but most of the girls that work for the legal escort services here in Victoria claim to enjoy their work. I would say legalization would be a good thing, as it cuts out the pimps and criminal element that causes most of the trouble and violence towards these sex workers.

I am not one who could or ever would use these services, because to me sex is much more an act of love than just recreation, but that's just me.
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Old 10-27-2008, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 14,745,295 times
Reputation: 3545
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
I saw this thread on the Christianity forum and I wanted to ask this forum what people thought about prostitution.

Personally, I don't really have a problem with it. My sentiments are that given the vast amount of people arrested for prostitution each year that it's going to happen anyway. But, my curiosity is more centered around why specifically it is illegal in the first place? I think that if it were run like a business in which the women (or men - I'm thinking of a career change... ) who were prostituting themselves were required weekly or perhaps monthly mandatory HIV and STD tests and had to display it like the food preparation cleanliness report you see at restaurants that it would actually decrease the number of STD's transmitted through prostitution. I also think that given the number of affiliations that drug dealers and other low-lifes tend to have involvement with the prostitution community that it may cut down on that as well. Overall, I really don't see a huge problem with it. Besides, the government can just tax the hell out of it and pay for other things... like Sarah Palin's wardrobe.
I pretty much agree.
I would like for it to be legalized so there is some form of mandatory STD and HIV testing.
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Old 10-27-2008, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 14,745,295 times
Reputation: 3545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer View Post
My big problem with prostitution is that many, many prostitutes are not doing it as a career choice but because they have through circumstances become forced into it.

I used to write for a student magazine and did a lot of research talking to prostitutes etc... and what I found was young women who either through terrible family lives ( like being abused by parents etc...) or getting into drugs were then left to fend off for themselves and sell their bodies just to barely exist. very few seemed to be "independent" also and ended up "owned" and abused by their pimps.

There is also the issue of sex trafficking which is now huge and extremely common and I'm afraid I think prostitution is not really a clear defined issue of consenting adults walking the streets.

Organised crime is now one of the main contributors to prostitution and I met very few women who chose to become street walkers.

If women were truly independent, and consenting and prostitution was clearly a real choice I might find this issue a bit easier to accept.
As things stand now I find it really quite a distressing and very murky issue.

I think many men absolve themselves of any "guilt" by trying to pretend to themselves that it is a "clean" business and that the women are there because of choice when it is not the case. The vast majority of women go from one type of abuse ( parental/drug etc... ) to another. And men are utterly complicit in this act simply because they can't keep it in their pants.
For most women prostitution is a last resort, a "choice" of desperation and it seems odd to me that many of us bury our hands in the sand about it.

Organised crime, sex trafficking, terrible home lives , drug problems, poverty, all these are really what most prostitution is about.
For example in Amsterdam , always heralded as this safe and very enlightened place for prostitutes the vast majority of prostitutes come from the far East or Eastern Europe. There are hardly ANY Dutch prostitutes in Amsterdam, they have to be "imported" which to me implies a serious issue arising from enforced sex slavery.

A legalised brothel with very strict rules and with serious checks would certainly help with this but for the majority of prostitutes this is just not the reality and let's face it most of these women are "invisible", used and abused on a daily basis, assaulted and raped, traded like flesh and treated as less than animals because their clients arrogantly assume their "needs" come first. Most prostitute clients IMO seriously kid themselves if they really believe they have chosen that life. Actually they kid themselves, they just do not care what their kicks actually means to the woman they have sex with.

The Link Between Prostitution and Sex Trafficking (http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/rls/38790.htm - broken link)
Prostitution & Sex Trafficking (http://www.iast.net/ProstitutionSexTrafficking.htm - broken link)
Europe Reconsiders Prostitution as Sex Trafficking Booms | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 28.04.2008

Women's bodies should not be treated as commodities to be traded for and bought. Yes it is the oldest profession in the world but I will never understand how any man can think of a woman as walking orrifices for his personal pleasure.

Prostitution is on the whole a dehumanising and debasing business and is hardly ever a business between two equals.

This is a far more complex issue than most people want to think about and one which brings real questions about "choice".
"The Bunny Ranch " in Nevada is not what the vast majority of prostitution entails.

There is true pain, abuse and a lot of criminal acts involved along the way for most women. For a man to consider women as sexual property to be taken any time he feels like it simply because he can pay is to me just completely beyond comprehension. It might be good if men actually thought about what the journey of the person whose services they buy has actually entailed.

I am not a prude and should women be truly equal partners in the exchange then I would find it a lot more palatable. As it stands now I am afraid prostitution and a lot of the sex industry in general as a lot to answer for and is hardly a "clean" business morally and ethically.


For many women prostitution is only another form of slavery. And there is nothing sexy or acceptable about any form of slavery.
Well maybe if it was legalized, there can be some sort of union formed and they can offer college scholarships to those who want to leave the profession or something like that.
::shrug::
I do know what you're saying though and it is sad that some people have to resort to selling their bodies and that's THE only thing they can see themselves doing.
At the same time, there are lots of little odd jobs one can work if one REALLY didn't want to do that.
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Old 10-27-2008, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,829,291 times
Reputation: 1114
Prostitution is a horrible existence, it should be outlawed everywhere.

I don't buy into the "their all victims" ...we all have choices in life.
Mentally and Physically abused people that are enslaved by others should be freed and helped, not legitimized and propelled into a career of low self esteem and indecency.


godspeed,

freedom
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Old 10-27-2008, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,502 posts, read 36,999,655 times
Reputation: 13972
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
Prostitution is a horrible existence, it should be outlawed everywhere.

I don't buy into the "their all victims" ...we all have choices in life.
Mentally and Physically abused people that are enslaved by others should be freed and helped, not legitimized and propelled into a career of low self esteem and indecency.


godspeed,

freedom
For the most part you are right, it is a terrible destructive thing in most of the world and at the root of much violence, plus the trade in slavery. When has criminalizing prostitution ever worked? It would be far better in my opinion if it was legal and regulated and taken out of the control of criminals and pimps. It's not a perfect solution, but at least that seems to work fairly well where I live.
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Old 10-27-2008, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,829,291 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
For the most part you are right, it is a terrible destructive thing in most of the world and at the root of much violence, plus the trade in slavery. When has criminalizing prostitution ever worked? It would be far better in my opinion if it was legal and regulated and taken out of the control of criminals and pimps. It's not a perfect solution, but at least that seems to work fairly well where I live.
Well outlawing murder hasn't worked to well either, but i think it is still a good thing to have it illegal....

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 10-27-2008, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,032 posts, read 24,563,808 times
Reputation: 20164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Most of what you say is true of illegal prostitution, but most of the girls that work for the legal escort services here in Victoria claim to enjoy their work. I would say legalization would be a good thing, as it cuts out the pimps and criminal element that causes most of the trouble and violence towards these sex workers.

I am not one who could or ever would use these services, because to me sex is much more an act of love than just recreation, but that's just me.


I absolutely agree with you that some women ( such as escorts) do make a career choice . However the true face of the majority of prostitution is women who walk the streets, most of them coerced into it by pimps, because of drug dependency or other social issues such as extreme poverty . Many women have literally been "sold" to pimps, some abroad ,some at home. Some have their kids taken away from them as a means of coercion.

Most live a life of quiet desperation, enduring sexual and physical abuse on a daily basis and many women are "broken" by gang raping to make them docile and pliable to the trade.

Legalising prostitution might solve the problems. To be honest I am not sure what the solution is.

But one thing I know for sure is that their clients should exercise a little bit soul searching and once in a while ponder whether many women truly "chose" to have sex with 20, 30, 40 punters a day up a wall, in strangers cars or dirty rent by the hour rooms, because it pays so much and is such a good life, or whether they are exercising a bit of disingenuous "naivete" in order to assuage any feelings of guilt they might feel.

The stories I heard from street walkers both in the US and in Europe were horrific and nothing short of slavery.

Legalised brothels do offer a modicum of safety for working girls and can perform checks both health-wise and maybe ascertain the level of choice and consent involved but I know that there is NO protection available for the street walkers and many end up raped on a regular basis, assaulted, beaten up and often murdered.

Nobody seems to give a damn in our society about their welfare. As I said the real face of prostitution is not clean rooms and a safe haven of a brothel with kindly brothel keepers. The real face of prostitution is human misery, degradation, terror, dependence , and a dehumanising trade which is unacceptable.

If legalisation does make it impossible for sex trafficking and abuse then I am all for it. I am not sure whether it would truly work but I am certainly open to the idea. Though , sex trafficking in the Netherlands is a huge problem and they have a pretty regulated sex industry so maybe it is not the perfect panacea we all hope it might be.

So as I said I don't know what the answer is. I just believe we need to be truly honest about the reality and stop trying to shield our gaze from a section of the population most people just want to ignore. There is a lot of darkness and true pain behind prostitution and we as a society need to address the problem head on as mature people in an open way.

The issue is not going to go away and all we can do is try to eradicate the misery behind the sex industry as much as possible.
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