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Old 01-17-2009, 11:43 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
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OK, there is at least one other competing theory and a lot of the newer stuff coming out of central and S. America seems to be bearing it out. SO....continental drift, I assume you are familiar with plate techtonics. The easternmost point of S. America corresponds quite well with the indentation that occurs at the Qua Ibo (the native name for the river, but, since everyone knows a river does not have a name until given one by some white guy, on the maps it is the "Cross River" who knows what the white guy thought it was mad at.) Familiar with the Jaguar, are we, kinda favors the Leopard, Central and S. American Parrots are quite similar to the same specie in W. Africa, several specie of anteater also appear to be cousins, and lets not forget Crocs and Caimen. There is a good argument for simutaneous origination, specie coming from a common ancestor, altering their evolutionary path because of differences in geography, occurring after the continental drift split the continents. A reasonable question now exists about the origins of the natives in C. and S. america. It is considered almost fact that man originated in Africa, the same danged place that the drift broke apart, the problem, is slowly appearing, the time line is off. some of the ruins are of civilizations that predate the migration across the bering straight. This is a messy situation, evolutionarily speaking. Part of the problem is, no one knows how many pyramids exist in Mexico and C. America, a lot of them are covered over with dirt and just look like hills, there are a lot of hills that do not follow the volcanic fault line that runs through the region. The Museo National de Antropojia (National Museum of Anthropology) in Chapultapec park, Mexico City. ( Chapultapec castle, is the famous "halls of montezuma" of the Marine Corps Hymn fame) I walked all around it and have no idea how the jarheads (since I was one, it is not a derogatory term) stormed and took that castle, it sits atop a mesa and has sheer 30 foot walls on top of the edge of the mesa, these walls, slightly overhang. The museum has a map of pyramids, among other things, these pyramids flow north and south, but the point of origin is, at best , imprecise. There are/were two daggers on display, they appear identical, quite ornate, the one on top is Egyptian and is over 3000 years old, the bottom one is Mexican and is at least a thousand years older. At least one of the Egyptian pyramids was built with Mexican stone. There is beginning to be more evidence that man evolved in two places, Africa and S. America, after the drift broke them apart, the same animals inhabited both areas, did I mention monkeys, there are a lot of them, very similar between the two areas. Having spent a deal of time in both areas, their similarities are quite striking.
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:02 AM
 
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I can't make much sense of what you are trying to say. Links would have also been nice.
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Old 01-18-2009, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
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The problem with what you're saying is that the split between Africa and South America occurred in the range of 100 million years ago. Here's a link:
You'll notice that they're talking about how the split may have affected the distribution of dinosaurs that existed at the time but that was far before mammals had evolved into primates. You do have an interesting point that there are monkeys on both continents today which are very similar to each other and I can honestly say that I have never even considered how that could happen. I doubt very much if man evolved from two separate lineages though because the whole human race is just too similar genetically and all indications suggest that we have common ancestors for all human beings from roughly one hundred thousand years ago. There are definitely alot of unknowns about the details of our evolution but I don't believe it's possible that man evolved in two separate locations and ended up being almost identical. Also, I've never heard anyone suggest that one of the pyramids in Egypt is made from Mexican stone, that seems impossible. Do you have any links that discuss this? Thanks.
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:28 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
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That information comes from the National Museum of Anthropology (the stone from mexico), actually it would be even more remarkable if both human specie were of the same type, the C.American were of Oriental lineage, actually, according to the same cited museum, (they claimed this as a theory, the stone they claim is fact) the other possibility is that humans migrated over the land bridge from N. America into Asia. Yes, the split occurred around 100 thousand years ago, but, the same progenator for man existed on both sides of the split, and evolution did it's thing, differences exist from skin tone to epicanthal fold (the eye thing in Orientals and Native Americans- both groups are considered sub-sets of the same Oriental Race) There was also a little statue, upon a black stone base there was a chubby man sitting cross legged, grinning...... This was carved, according to the museum, at least 2000 years before any Oriental Buddah. The Mexican pyramids, at least some of them are quite a bit older than the Egyptian. In the museum, they take the study of anthropology quite seriously and some of their artifacts make the egyptians look like the new kids on the block.
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Old 01-18-2009, 11:00 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Rhodes View Post
That information comes from the National Museum of Anthropology (the stone from mexico), actually it would be even more remarkable if both human specie were of the same type, the C.American were of Oriental lineage, actually, according to the same cited museum, (they claimed this as a theory, the stone they claim is fact) the other possibility is that humans migrated over the land bridge from N. America into Asia. Yes, the split occurred around 100 thousand years ago, but, the same progenator for man existed on both sides of the split, and evolution did it's thing, differences exist from skin tone to epicanthal fold (the eye thing in Orientals and Native Americans- both groups are considered sub-sets of the same Oriental Race) There was also a little statue, upon a black stone base there was a chubby man sitting cross legged, grinning...... This was carved, according to the museum, at least 2000 years before any Oriental Buddah. The Mexican pyramids, at least some of them are quite a bit older than the Egyptian. In the museum, they take the study of anthropology quite seriously and some of their artifacts make the egyptians look like the new kids on the block.
I honestly don't see the problem. The continents drifted apart millions of years ago. Man arrived on the scene somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000 years ago (this is still a point of conjecture amongst scientists). The best date for an accurate assessment of the rise of agriculture and societies is somewhere in the vicinity of 15,000 years ago. Prior to that, man was essentially a group of hunter/gatherers.

The dates for humans crossing the "land bridge" from Asia to North America are also somewhat up for debate - I've heard as little as 12,000 years ago and I've heard as long ago as 50,000 years ago.

The point being, that although there are similar monkeys on either continent, they are not the same monkeys. Or, should I say, their DNA differences are different enough to classify them as a separate species. While there are differences between human beings throughout the world such as skin color, epicanthal folds, etc... we are actually so closely linked by our DNA that there is essentially no difference amongst us.

We should honestly not be fooled by the similarities of different creatures (such as the monkeys you mentioned) whereas the DNA evidence tells the real story. There is a recently extinct marsupial from Australia named the Thylacinidae that had many of the same characteristics in that of a dog. Yet, to examine the DNA of it and to do a dissection of it, it is certainly not related to a dog in any way, shape or form. While the natural selection process adapted it to look very similar to a dog, it is through and through a marsupial and had a much different common ancestor than that of the dog.

In other words, if you were to bring yourself down to the DNA level, you would see that humans beings are 99.999999999% similar to one another all over the world. If you were to examine the DNA evidence from a South American monkey and compare it to an African monkey, they would be vastly different in relative comparison to our human example.

In order for human beings to have evolved separately and independently from the same ape-like ancestor millions of years ago on two different continents would bring about inherently different DNA characteristics. So different, in fact, that we would probably not be able to inter-breed with natives from South America. As history tells us, the Spanish had absolutely no problem doing this when they arrived there several hundred years ago.

You have to also keep in mind that nowhere in South America has there been any evidence of transitional creatures suggesting that man arose on the South American continent. To go back to the time at which the continents split apart, you are not just talking about a few "links" in the evolutionary chain, you are talking almost the whole of human evolution from even before Lucy (approx. 3.8 million years ago) as having happened independently and separately to give us nearly identical DNA results.

It would be pretty much impossible for that to happen. Thus, while we may not have the exact answers to precisely when our ancestors crossed the land bridge or precise other dates of human history, the DNA evidence clearly shows that we are inextricably linked back to Africa to one common ancestor.
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Old 01-18-2009, 11:21 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,088 posts, read 13,051,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCSTroop View Post
I honestly don't see the problem. The continents drifted apart millions of years ago. Man arrived on the scene somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000 years ago (this is still a point of conjecture amongst scientists). The best date for an accurate assessment of the rise of agriculture and societies is somewhere in the vicinity of 15,000 years ago. Prior to that, man was essentially a group of hunter/gatherers.

The dates for humans crossing the "land bridge" from Asia to North America are also somewhat up for debate - I've heard as little as 12,000 years ago and I've heard as long ago as 50,000 years ago.

The point being, that although there are similar monkeys on either continent, they are not the same monkeys. Or, should I say, their DNA differences are different enough to classify them as a separate species. While there are differences between human beings throughout the world such as skin color, epicanthal folds, etc... we are actually so closely linked by our DNA that there is essentially no difference amongst us.

We should honestly not be fooled by the similarities of different creatures (such as the monkeys you mentioned) whereas the DNA evidence tells the real story. There is a recently extinct marsupial from Australia named the Thylacinidae that had many of the same characteristics in that of a dog. Yet, to examine the DNA of it and to do a dissection of it, it is certainly not related to a dog in any way, shape or form. While the natural selection process adapted it to look very similar to a dog, it is through and through a marsupial and had a much different common ancestor than that of the dog.

In other words, if you were to bring yourself down to the DNA level, you would see that humans beings are 99.999999999% similar to one another all over the world. If you were to examine the DNA evidence from a South American monkey and compare it to an African monkey, they would be vastly different in relative comparison to our human example.

In order for human beings to have evolved separately and independently from the same ape-like ancestor millions of years ago on two different continents would bring about inherently different DNA characteristics. So different, in fact, that we would probably not be able to inter-breed with natives from South America. As history tells us, the Spanish had absolutely no problem doing this when they arrived there several hundred years ago.

You have to also keep in mind that nowhere in South America has there been any evidence of transitional creatures suggesting that man arose on the South American continent. To go back to the time at which the continents split apart, you are not just talking about a few "links" in the evolutionary chain, you are talking almost the whole of human evolution from even before Lucy (approx. 3.8 million years ago) as having happened independently and separately to give us nearly identical DNA results.

It would be pretty much impossible for that to happen. Thus, while we may not have the exact answers to precisely when our ancestors crossed the land bridge or precise other dates of human history, the DNA evidence clearly shows that we are inextricably linked back to Africa to one common ancestor.
Yes, that is what I am suggesting, and that one common ancestor existed in both places. We really have not found,nor have we really looked for ancestral links in C.America, but, the similarities between various specie of parrots, crocodiles, snakes, palm trees, grasses are uncanny. Yes, I do know that there are no indigenous crocs in C. America, but, there are Caimen and Alligators, I doubt that these critters crossed the land bridge, and commonality of these animal ancestors is fairly well established.
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Old 01-18-2009, 11:26 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,280,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Rhodes View Post
Yes, that is what I am suggesting, and that one common ancestor existed in both places. We really have not found,nor have we really looked for ancestral links in C.America, but, the similarities between various specie of parrots, crocodiles, snakes, palm trees, grasses are uncanny. Yes, I do know that there are no indigenous crocs in C. America, but, there are Caimen and Alligators, I doubt that these critters crossed the land bridge, and commonality of ancestors is fairly well established.
You're not understanding what I'm saying. The similarities between the parrots, snakes, etc... between the two continents might indeed be uncanny and they might and probably do have a common ancestor. But, you're failing to conceptualize that similar appearances do not mean they share DNA similarities in the same capacity that humans do. A parrot in South America would have DNA differences clearly distinguishable from a parrot in Africa regardless of the similarities of their physical features! Humans do not have this trait. Humans are almost identical in so much as their DNA is concerned indicating that they most certainly did not evolve on two separate continents.
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