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If our consciousness was merely the sum total of biological structures and chemical reactions in our brains then we would all be uniform in our thinking and reactions. It would just be another physical process like our hearts beating. I think that we have a soul that lived before our birth and lives on after we die. It is the sense of self that is separate from the body. The part of us that makes us ponder these very questions. Where we go or where we come from are for the individual to work out for themselves and I guess we will all find out the truth in the end. I might of course change my mind on this with a bit more study of how the mind works but for now that is what I think.
I have always wondered about something and please don't take it the wrong way as I'm not starting a debate about Atheism vs the belief in God.
The idea of your consciousness/soul/whatever ceasing to exist at death is something that I find deeply disturbing. Given the choice between going to a physical hell or being annihilated-I would have to seriously think about this. Not only the process and the "unknown" about fading away bothers me but what if someone's life really sucked? That is it? I can think of little more depressing to me...
To paraphrase Dr. Gregory House "I don't believe in the afterlife because I can't bear the thought that this is all a test". Well, I'm more of the opinion that I have to believe in an afterlife because I can't bear the thought that this short, sometimes miserable, sometimes fun life, is it.
How do all of you cope with this? How do you make this palatable?
P.S. For obvious reasons this question is directed more to Atheists than Agnostics-but either are welcome to chime in.
I'm not afraid of ending, just as I wasn't afraid of starting.
I do know that despite "me" no longer existing in a physical form and despite the fact that I don't believe in some essence of me floating around in the ether I do know that who I am, how I affected those around me, how they felt about me, it will live inside those people who loved me and even those who hated me. Who I am will live inside them until they die. I also know that those who came before me live inside of me, even those I have not met. I don't think of it as some great spiritual thing but as a cellular memory situation on a molecular level. So to answer your question I think people do "live on" in two ways through dna & cellular memory (not going to happen with me because I've not procreated) and through shared experience which is now coded into the dark recesses of the minds of every person I have or will ever interact with in my life.
I have always wondered about something and please don't take it the wrong way as I'm not starting a debate about Atheism vs the belief in God.
The idea of your consciousness/soul/whatever ceasing to exist at death is something that I find deeply disturbing. Given the choice between going to a physical hell or being annihilated-I would have to seriously think about this. Not only the process and the "unknown" about fading away bothers me but what if someone's life really sucked? That is it? I can think of little more depressing to me...
To paraphrase Dr. Gregory House "I don't believe in the afterlife because I can't bear the thought that this is all a test". Well, I'm more of the opinion that I have to believe in an afterlife because I can't bear the thought that this short, sometimes miserable, sometimes fun life, is it.
How do all of you cope with this? How do you make this palatable?
P.S. For obvious reasons this question is directed more to Atheists than Agnostics-but either are welcome to chime in.
"... about something" or "... about nothing"?
Before i'd cope, i would rather try to comprehend what's missing between methodical research and actual contents.
sorry, to sound a bit enervated today: palatable would mean much much more interesting!
please don't just challenge my mediocre knowledge and cut me off from a possibly developing intelligence at the same time.
to answer to nothing: pick up certain vibes from a matching personal resonance spectrum.
(sorry, my thoughts just don't fit any established jargon - yet)
Stories about heaven/hell really is a coercive mechanism -- in other words, it is using "go to hell" to intimidate followers from defect. Heaven in religion really has no meaning at all, that is just something to entice people to join in. Once they join in, start believing that stuff, it's all about hell. So, all religious followers know, they really can not go to heaven.
To atheists, Heaven/hell are just common lies. They do not worry about it.
With that said, it seems there are some choices there: one can choose to believe heaven/hell and worrying about it, or not to believe that stuff and not worrying about it.
Then, who got it right, who got it wrong? It's like with God's existence, some people choose to commit their whole lives around unknowable; other people choose not to commit anything around unknowable.
The idea of your consciousness/soul/whatever ceasing to exist at death is something that I find deeply disturbing. Given the choice between going to a physical hell or being annihilated-I would have to seriously think about this. Not only the process and the "unknown" about fading away bothers me but what if someone's life really sucked? That is it? I can think of little more depressing to me...
Honestly, I have never understood why this is such a problem. And, truly, I am shocked to hear that you find the idea of Hell preferable to non-existence. Makes me think your Sunday School wasn't very energized (if you had one).
Are you implying that the value of life is equal to the non-suckiness of one's experience? That is, we deserve to have a life that does not suck, so if our real life sucks, we get to depend on an afterlife that presumably doesn't suck?
I'd say that's pretty selfish. This is your life - why shouldn't it suck? Rather, it should be obvious that real life can suck and so you should see to it that you make it suck less. That is your responsibility. This is your life. If that depresses you then I bet your life sucks.
Maybe there should be an anti-Pascal's Wager? This one would dictate that we should all make this gamble: "This is the only life that will ever exist for me so if it sucks, then suckiness is all I get. So I had better be sure that my entire existence does not suck and do something about it NOW while I exist."
That seems like a good bet to me.
Human lies are easy to recognize. That's why one can be 100% certain some of the things other humans were talking about are absolutely lies: God (beard, bid MAN in the sky), heaven/hell (eternal jail), afterlife (there is another life after death), ...
Why would anyone honestly believe that kind of stuffs?
About Pascal's Wager (infinite payoff, infinite suckiness based on probabilities of things that are not defined) is a fallacy -- there is a long list explanations of this fallacy on Wikipedia.
Stories about heaven/hell really is a coercive mechanism -- in other words, it is using "go to hell" to intimidate followers from defect. Heaven in religion really has no meaning at all, that is just something to entice people to join in. Once they join in, start believing that stuff, it's all about hell. So, all religious followers know, they really can not go to heaven.
To atheists, Heaven/hell are just common lies. They do not worry about it.
With that said, it seems there are some choices there: one can choose to believe heaven/hell and worrying about it, or not to believe that stuff and not worrying about it.
Then, who got it right, who got it wrong? It's like with God's existence, some people choose to commit their whole lives around unknowable; other people choose not to commit anything around unknowable.
You really missed the point of my question. I wasn't arguing for the existence of heaven or any sort. I was asking how you, the atheist, personally deal with the belief that you will be annihilated upon death...
I suppose dwelling on what you think are other stupid beliefs is one way to cope.
Honestly, I have never understood why this is such a problem. And, truly, I am shocked to hear that you find the idea of Hell preferable to non-existence. Makes me think your Sunday School wasn't very energized (if you had one).
Are you implying that the value of life is equal to the non-suckiness of one's experience? That is, we deserve to have a life that does not suck, so if our real life sucks, we get to depend on an afterlife that presumably doesn't suck?
I'd say that's pretty selfish. This is your life - why shouldn't it suck? Rather, it should be obvious that real life can suck and so you should see to it that you make it suck less. That is your responsibility. This is your life. If that depresses you then I bet your life sucks.
Maybe there should be an anti-Pascal's Wager? This one would dictate that we should all make this gamble: "This is the only life that will ever exist for me so if it sucks, then suckiness is all I get. So I had better be sure that my entire existence does not suck and do something about it NOW while I exist."
That seems like a good bet to me.
I suppose we all have different mentalities. I realize how terrible hell is described as...just in my own valid opinion I think that non-existence just might be worse.
I think you read a little too much into my "what if life sucks" question. I wasn't using it as a logical argument for why I think there is an afterlife, I was merely pointing out how miserable someone would feel if they had a horrible disability, spent lots of time in a concentration camp, etc. and knew that there was nothing beyond.
bfrank, you mention much about making much out of life now because you believe this is all...that's great and all but I think you don't truly think of the implications of true nothingness. I could be wrong since I'm just basing this off this one post.
You really missed the point of my question. I wasn't arguing for the existence of heaven or any sort. I was asking how you, the atheist, personally deal with the belief that you will be annihilated upon death...
I suppose dwelling on what you think are other stupid beliefs is one way to cope.
You believe people who do not believe in God WILL BE annihilated, because someone else had threatened you before with the same argument. (I am not one those creative types who can give a good answer when someone else says something not nice -- but fill in some blanks)
Like I said before the only reason these people threatened you with those bad stories is because they want you to stay in their religion (that is called control).
Have you noticed: God never speaks for himself -- it's always the self-proclaimed God-agents "interpret" the God's intentions?
Hell, annihilation are nothing more than cursing others, coercing followers to stay in religions. Say something back to those people.
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