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"There is strong anecdotal evidence of a conversion asymmetry between atheism and the world's largest religion, Christianity. Many Christians (including ministers and priests, and theologians) convert to atheism even though while still Christians they had been well-versed in Christian apologetics. By contrast, it is very hard to find atheists who converted to Christianity even though while still atheists they had been well-versed in the arguments against Christianity. If the best atheistic arguments against Christianity are better than the best Christian arguments against atheism, then such an asymmetry is precisely what one would expect. The best arguments of atheism would then tend to inoculate their atheist hearers against Christianity, whereas the best arguments of Christianity would be generally unable to inoculate their Christian hearers against atheism."
Here is another link with a lot of interesting reading material on the asymmetry of conversion: Leaving Christianity
This partially also explains why missionaries focus more on the "low hanging fruit" in third world countries where it is easier to convert people.
Atheism isn't a choice, it's a condition. Like being male or female. I'm an atheist because I can't force myself to "believe" ancient middle eastern creation myths. I'm just not capable of believing that stuff. I dojn't believe the middle east is a good example for the world to follow.
Those of you who are fervent believers might be able to understand this analogy.
Imagine trying to believe in any of the religions and deities you don't currently accept. They seem, well... naive, don't they? Maybe even totally inapplicable to your life. You can't force yourself to believe them.
Atheism is like that in regards to your faith. Not hostile, just not involved. Unengaged. Uninterested.
Atheism isn't a choice, it's a condition. Like being male or female. I'm an atheist because I can't force myself to "believe" ancient middle eastern creation myths. I'm just not capable of believing that stuff. I dojn't believe the middle east is a good example for the world to follow.
Those of you who are fervent believers might be able to understand this analogy.
Imagine trying to believe in any of the religions and deities you don't currently accept. They seem, well... naive, don't they? Maybe even totally inapplicable to your life. You can't force yourself to believe them.
Atheism is like that in regards to your faith. Not hostile, just not involved. Unengaged. Uninterested.
True. Regardless, the links relate to people moving from atheism to christianity and vice versa. It then goes on to explain possible causes about why there are more people moving over to atheism, and credits the "atheist argument".
"Strong anecdotal evidence"? Isn't that an oxymoron?
Assuming that atheist apologetic arguments are indeed more effective at obtaining conversion, it still doesn't tell us much. Is it because they are truer or more logical, as the article would like us to believe? Or because they resonate better with our modern culture? Or any other reason, really (some theists I know would say atheism is attractive by itself, what with freedom from moral responsibility and stuff ).
...
Assuming that atheist apologetic arguments are indeed more effective at obtaining conversion, it still doesn't tell us much. Is it because they are truer or more logical, as the article would like us to believe? Or because they resonate better with our modern culture? ........
It is an interesting study in progress. He tends not to get into the reasoning behind conversions much - just the results. He does say that this is a hypothesis that seems to be supported by evidence that he has collected - and he lists the evidence.
To a point yeah....I'm not going to argue you guys into the kingdom of God. You won't believe until you want to believe. Ultimately, I believe atheism is a choice...you guys just don't like God, and don't want any part of him. A prime example of it was Hitchens' interview with Friel--bottom line is he didn't want to be subject to a higher power--and he said that in the interview.
Honestly...it's not just a disbelief--it's a vehement anti-belief. If you guys honestly don't care, why spend the time railing on about it?
To a point yeah....I'm not going to argue you guys into the kingdom of God. You won't believe until you want to believe. Ultimately, I believe atheism is a choice...you guys just don't like God, and don't want any part of him. A prime example of it was Hitchens' interview with Friel--bottom line is he didn't want to be subject to a higher power--and he said that in the interview.
Honestly...it's not just a disbelief--it's a vehement anti-belief. If you guys honestly don't care, why spend the time railing on about it?
I think you got many of us wrong - not liking is not the same as not believing. Because of the disbelief, we do not want a part of god. The vehemence is probably a function of how strong the disbelief is or how strongly someone tries to argue otherwise. For example, I cannot dislike Santa because he does not exist. I also do not want to pray to him and be a part of him and this may make believers in Santa unhappy.
It is just a discussion. It is a free nation governed by the constitution and you have every right to rail against us too - like you just did.
One thing that caught my eye in the linked material was that besides the discussions (like ones we can find in these forums), it also tried to give some basic case studies and results. You may enjoy them - who knows, you may decide to come over to the other side like the many cited there.
"There is strong anecdotal evidence of a conversion asymmetry between atheism and the world's largest religion, Christianity. Many Christians (including ministers and priests, and theologians) convert to atheism even though while still Christians they had been well-versed in Christian apologetics. By contrast, it is very hard to find atheists who converted to Christianity even though while still atheists they had been well-versed in the arguments against Christianity. If the best atheistic arguments against Christianity are better than the best Christian arguments against atheism, then such an asymmetry is precisely what one would expect. The best arguments of atheism would then tend to inoculate their atheist hearers against Christianity, whereas the best arguments of Christianity would be generally unable to inoculate their Christian hearers against atheism."
Here is another link with a lot of interesting reading material on the asymmetry of conversion: Leaving Christianity
This partially also explains why missionaries focus more on the "low hanging fruit" in third world countries where it is easier to convert people.
Since most atheists come to atheism from a society and childhood that encouraged or even demanded belief in religion, and coming to atheism is a process of learning about said religion, determining there is a lot of un-truth, and stepping outside of the belief system, it makes sense that atheism's arguments are stronger than those for religion. The arguments for religion center on - you have to believe, god will get you and punish you with eternal damnation if you don't, and finally, leave your ability to reason at the door if you don't buy it. That is if you don't count the out and out lies that are claimed for "evidence". Those who come to atheism tend not to need authority to feel safe and are not able to convince themselves that something is real with all evidence and logic pointing that it is not.
Only those atheists who end up really needing the emotional aspects of religion and believing there is the magical being that cares for you that suspension of disbelief can overrule the rational reasoning that brought one to atheism in the first place. It takes a lot of rational argument backed up with real evidence to convince an atheist that there is really a god out there. The lack of absolute proof that there isn't a god does not hold any water. And that is ultimately all that the religionists have that the atheist must concede.
There are many, many religionists who continue to believe simply because they have not been educated or don't care to think about the issues that bring people to atheism. Like there are weak atheists, there are a lot of weak religionists.
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You may enjoy them - who knows, you may decide to come over to the other side like the many cited there.
