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You don't understand what a theory is in science. A scientific theory holds more weight of truth than a law. A scientific theory is defined as a body of knowledge, gathered by observation which can be proven or disproven.
My theistic world view? I wonder when I become a theist....oh wait I'm not. I find atheism (and atheists) to be just as irrational as their theistic cousins. Different sides of the same coin.
The problem really is that humans in general are not particularly rational. No matter how hard you try you will not be able to remove your midbrain.
I apologize for stating that you were a theist. Instead I find that you are a misanthrope. (Likewise, I'm sure.) You're right, humans aren't particularly rational in general, but I find that religion introduces an irrational element into the mix, while atheism does the opposite. And remember, the definition of an atheist is not that there is no god, but that s/he doesn't believe in one, which is a crucial difference which makes it perfectly rational. In effect, to the theist: Prove your assertions!
...but I find that religion introduces an irrational element into the mix, while atheism does the opposite. And remember, the definition of an atheist is not that there is no god, but that s/he doesn't believe in one, which is a crucial difference which makes it perfectly rational. In effect, to the theist: Prove your assertions!
There are a number of assertions the atheists do not prove. I do not find any difference in rationality between the people that run around calling themselves atheists/theists if you condition on education.
It does not make much sense that by just being an atheist you are automatically more rational. After all, reasoning is a rather globally distributed process in the brain why would a single belief dramatically change it?
I think that by being an atheist, one is more rational in that respect. Of course there are atheists around who are irrational in other respects. You are bringing brain physiology into it, which isn't germane to the subject. Anyway, isn't it more rational for an atheist to insist that the existence of an invisible, ineffable supernatural being needs proving than it is for a theist to insist upon its existence being disproven? Taking its existence "on faith" is irrational.
I think that by being an atheist, one is more rational in that respect. Of course there are atheists around who are irrational in other respects. You are bringing brain physiology into it, which isn't germane to the subject. Anyway, isn't it more rational for an atheist to insist that the existence of an invisible, ineffable supernatural being needs proving than it is for a theist to insist upon its existence being disproven? Taking its existence "on faith" is irrational.
Lol, are you sure your not describing the vulcan view on emotion? is it catman or spock?
Some of the Same-ol Same-ol I see.... Boooohhhhring!
Christians, many at least, have a marked set of philosophical postions, reference points, icons, mottos and public displays and historically consistent beliefs that are required and followed, usually by groups of like-minded people.
An atheist is simply someone who doesn't happen to believe in any of that. Nothing more. No attendant other philosophies, beliefs or faiths required nor stated. They might be, philosophically, quite simplistic, or even glaringly absent of any spiritual philosophy.
To assign such philosophies, especially in the form of insult or denegration, only shows a lack of respect for another's right to their own opinion. To assume moral turpitude, or a lack of ethics simply because we don't happen to believe in a mythology that lacks any tangible proofs, is not only errant but also foolish and arrogant.
We gather here on C-D because we voluntarily choose to discuss our various views. That does not change the fact that many atheists have absolutely no opinion on any of this. They are conspicuously absent, and happily so.
Quite often it's only those of us who were once Christian, but who saw a particular "light" through logical analysis, that now show up here to present our rationales to those who haven't seen that particular logic. Or actively choose not to.
BTW, in an argument with any actual scientist, it's pointless to refute Evolution as being "only a theory". This is akin to stating that The Earth is round in theory only. In fact, there are those who still firmly believe that the Earth is flat. Really!
Save that tired old kind of irrelevant reasoning for kindergarten-level discussions amongst those Christians who desperately want & need to believe it. It holds no water with science; for them "theory" has significantly different meanings, much more akin to a "Law"; a set of established, tested and mutually accepted and well demonstrated observationss and conclusions, not a vague set of mumbo-jumbo hunches and guesses.
People who purposefully try to utilize that old argument once they have been corrected only persist in showing their incorrigibility, intransigence and stubborness. Fine characteristics to be known by!
Last edited by rifleman; 04-29-2009 at 10:09 PM..
Reason: clarifications
I think that by being an atheist, one is more rational in that respect. Of course there are atheists around who are irrational in other respects. You are bringing brain physiology into it, which isn't germane to the subject. Anyway, isn't it more rational for an atheist to insist that the existence of an invisible, ineffable supernatural being needs proving than it is for a theist to insist upon its existence being disproven? Taking its existence "on faith" is irrational.
I would suggest atheists asking for proof for something completely vacuous is an example of irrationality, not rationality. But regardless, the god issue is just one stupid issue. I find it extremely odd to make a judgment about one's intellect on the basis of a single stupid issue. In a research environment I've had to work with a variety of people in my life and I've never noticed a difference in talent between the spiritual types, the Christians, the theists, the atheists and so on. This crap rarely even comes up and its usually the atheists that are the most out spoken about it. It is also the atheists that tend to have some odd need to insult all the other people, they pick the most uneducated Christians, etc they can find and "debate" endlessly completely banal issues. None of this speaks to me of rationality.....
If you condition on education I do not think there is any difference between a Christian or atheist in terms of intelligence or the use of reason (as applied throughout their life....not just towards a particular issue).
Lastly, atheists have a thing for conflating theism and Christianity, but faith is only an essential part of the latter. There are plenty of theists that have rational justifications for their belief, whether you or the guy down the street disagrees with the justification is irrelevant in this regard.
Last edited by user_id; 04-29-2009 at 11:17 PM..
Reason: Addition.
Of course it's "completely vacuous", but theists assert that it exists. That is the point!
I never said Christians are less intelligent than atheists. They are simply misled, that is all. I used to be one myself, and I'm no more "intelligent" than I was then, simply better-informed.
To state the obvious, the reason that theism and Christianity are "conflated" by atheists in the Western world is because the latter is by far the most popular religion here. It's not really conflation, it is the the religion with which whose adherents we are most in contact with.
"...but faith is only an essential part of [Christianity]"! Only an essential part...what is your point? What "rational justifications", the veracity of the Bibke? Visions? Pseudo-historical evidence?
I wonder what your purpose in arguing these points is, and how unbiased you are. I'm like Spock? Have you so distanced yourself from the rest of humanity that you have no allegiance to any camp?
Of course it's "completely vacuous", but theists assert that it exists. That is the point!
If I asserted that mishimuhudo exists would you respond in a similar fashion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by catman
I never said Christians are less intelligent than atheists....
You said atheists were more "rational" which is essentially the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by catman
To state the obvious, the reason that theism and Christianity are "conflated" by atheists in the Western world is because the latter is by far the most popular religion here....
Regardless of why they are conflated they are and they should not be. A theist may or may not be religious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by catman
"...but faith is only an essential part of [Christianity]"! Only an essential part...what is your point?
My point was that faith is only essential to Christianity, not theism in general. Actually, its arguably not essential to Christianity either, but it depends on the sect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by catman
Have you so distanced yourself from the rest of humanity that you have no allegiance to any camp?
I have allegiances, just not to atheism or theism.
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The Vulcan, Spock
Some of the Same-ol Same-ol I see.... Boooohhhhring!
