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Old 05-15-2009, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
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The statement "I know what it's like to be dead" is self contradictory. As others have mentioned the ability to know is directly tied to consciousness and existence. It seems to be our nature to try and conceive or imagine what it would be like to be dead or to not exist but that's not possible. I had a simple medical procedure done a couple of months ago and had to be unconscious for about twenty minutes. I had absolutely no recollection of the procedure and was a little groggy for a few minutes when I came out of it. I think that is as close to being dead as we can experience without actually being dead and I probably shouldn't even use the word experience because I didn't experience a single thing.
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Old 05-15-2009, 03:36 PM
 
Location: California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
The statement "I know what it's like to be dead" is self contradictory. As others have mentioned the ability to know is directly tied to consciousness and existence. It seems to be our nature to try and conceive or imagine what it would be like to be dead or to not exist but that's not possible. I had a simple medical procedure done a couple of months ago and had to be unconscious for about twenty minutes. I had absolutely no recollection of the procedure and was a little groggy for a few minutes when I came out of it. I think that is as close to being dead as we can experience without actually being dead and I probably shouldn't even use the word experience because I didn't experience a single thing.
But we are certainly conscious and existent at this moment. We are capable of knowing in life, and I did use the present tense when I said "I know what it's like to be dead." And because there is nothing to remember, recollect, or experience while in the state of pre-birth; you prove that you know how it feels to be dead when you say that you can't conceive of it. There is nothing to conceive, you know that, and so you know everything there is to know about being dead.
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Old 05-15-2009, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
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Kid EH wrote:
Quote:
There is nothing to conceive, you know that, and so you know everything there is to know about being dead.
I think I see what you're trying to say, it's just that it's difficult to describe nothingness because there's nothing to describe.
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Old 05-15-2009, 03:52 PM
 
Location: California
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^ It's very difficult to describe in words. But once you think of non-existence as something you've already experienced, there is a lot that can be learned by "reflecting" on it. You can hardly say anything about what non-existence feels like, but you can say an endless number of things about what it doesn't feel like. For example: under the atheist belief system, we've been non-existent for billions of years. By looking back at what pre-birth was like, you know that those billions of years felt like no time at all.

That's why people are only scaring themselves when they talk about a death with no afterlife as an "eternal darkness". That's just not the reality of it. Dead people can't experience any passage of time! Subjectively:the nanosecond after death and the trillionth year after death would both take place at the same instant.
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:12 PM
 
Location: OKC
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I agree with the general thrust of the OP.

Our cognitive experience after death will be the same as it was before we were born, in the sense that we lack a functioning brain in either case.
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
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Well, if your talking at the "brain" level, then sure, there is no after life. When our other senses kick in, there is an afterlife. The brain doesn't actually go into the spirit world. It's the mind part of the brain that does. So when you're under anesthesia, your whole system shuts down, including the mind. But as that wears off, and the other senses kick in, the brain and mind come to life. When you're in the middle of that experience, between wake and sleep, your mind will work the best bacause that is the part, as in meditation, that gives you truth. If we could all function at that level, we could all know what ultimate truth really is.

Did I go off track?
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:50 PM
 
Location: OKC
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Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
Well, if your talking at the "brain" level, then sure, there is no after life. When our other senses kick in, there is an afterlife. The brain doesn't actually go into the spirit world. It's the mind part of the brain that does. So when you're under anesthesia, your whole system shuts down, including the mind. But as that wears off, and the other senses kick in, the brain and mind come to life. When you're in the middle of that experience, between wake and sleep, your mind will work the best bacause that is the part, as in meditation, that gives you truth. If we could all function at that level, we could all know what ultimate truth really is.

Did I go off track?

No offense Rev., but of course I disagree.

There is no mind apart from the brain. Every characteristic you attribute to the mind is created by the brain. This is something neurologist have known for sometime now. When the brain dies, so to does the mind.
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Old 05-15-2009, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
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I think I understand your idea, and I find the topic quite interesting. I should also say that I do not fear being dead because I don't believe in an afterlife. However, I'm not exactly fond of the process of dying, unless I go in my sleep.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,323 posts, read 6,026,930 times
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Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
No offense Rev., but of course I disagree.

There is no mind apart from the brain. Every characteristic you attribute to the mind is created by the brain. This is something neurologist have known for sometime now. When the brain dies, so to does the mind.
But have these same neurologists died and came back to say they had no mind upon seeing what could be the afterlife?
When people experience OBE's, it's their minds that bring back the information and not the brain. If the mind died with the brain, one could not experience an OBE and come back to tell about the experience. They would only exist in the spirt world.
Of course, if you became a medium and you channeled that person then you would know they still existed with a mind.

In all of the channelings I have read, all of them say they have to use the mind to communicate. They have to bring their thoughts forward in order to convey that message. Of course the one doing the channeling will still be aware and have their thoughts but the one being channeled will have control over the mind and not the brain.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:23 PM
 
Location: California
42 posts, read 174,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
No offense Rev., but of course I disagree.

There is no mind apart from the brain. Every characteristic you attribute to the mind is created by the brain. This is something neurologist have known for sometime now. When the brain dies, so to does the mind.
As far as I know, reverend, it's already a scientific fact that the mind and the brain are the same thing. However, science can't prove that humans don't possess souls which exist separate from the mind and body. So if by "mind" you mean "soul", you might want to just stick to calling it the soul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamplight View Post
I think I understand your idea, and I find the topic quite interesting. I should also say that I do not fear being dead because I don't believe in an afterlife. However, I'm not exactly fond of the process of dying, unless I go in my sleep.
There are plenty of good reasons to want to avoid death. But from what I can tell, we both agree that ending up in a state of non-existence is not one of them.
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